Restraining order agiainst a boat? What/how is this done?

[SoulFireMage]

Due to a dispute over some that was done a friend of mine has been threatened by this company to have a injunction/restraining order against his boat today.

The cost was under £1000 and may end up in small claims court. Is there such a restraining mechanism via the harbourmaster for these sort of debts-when they are in dispute?

Can anyone clarify this at all?

 

[whipper_snapper]

I was involved in a dispute with a boatyard a few years ago. As soon as it started to become clear that they were a lying bunch of crooks*, we just took the boat out of there. We were lucky that it was afloat and moveable (just), but had we delayed they could have destroyed our organisation by locking the boat up while they tried to extract money for work they had not done. We pushed a letter detailing the situation as we saw it through their letter box, accompanied by a report from an independent surveyor, and just buggered off. Sorted out the details over the following 2 years!

I have no idea how legal that was, but it worked.


* The high-point was when I phoned them from the boat. The yard, thinking I was 100s of miles away, said they had teams of people on board that very minute and would have started sooner if only our incompetent skipper had been there with the keys!

 

[SoulFireMage]

The whole business is very sad as I know both parties involved. At this time it would be really inappropriate to go into any details-I'm just hoping folks will turn sensible instead of throwing lawyers and injunctions at each other..

Specially as throwing lawyers pulls muscles!!

 

[[2574]]

I believe the action to which you refer is an Admiralty Writ - a method often used by marina businesses where a customer (allegedy) hasn't paid. Try a google on the subject.

rob

 

[SoulFireMage]

Thanks Rob. Much appreciated.

 

[PeterGibbs]

A valuable first port of call, and free, is the local Trading Standards office. It will advise on remedies, and if there are issues within its purview it will make representations.

Basically, property cannot be restrained without due process - a court order. I recently received a utility note telling me a debt collector would be sent to settle...an empty threat.
I doubt any yard would go to the cost of an injunction for small sums -eg £1000. Its solicitor would advise against, especially if the case is weakly supported. This threat too is probably empty. But if there is an insurer involved in the claim, and plenty of policies provide some cover here, including legal defence, the insurer must be advised, and the details passed to the yard – if only to deflect the pressure and return to due process.

Some folks, when they've received a letter before action or court papers, tend to push them away to a corner of the kitchen table. This is a mistake. Vigorous and detailed riposte is needed, not silence.

It is worth repeating for those who read these posts, that dealings with a yard or any supplier are best committed to paper. Work will be time and materials etc. Folks forget that a quotation is still a qualified offer to undertake work. An estimate is actually worthless. This applies to lifting and blocking etc - it seems boring, but in my own experience, it saved me hundreds once, by not letting the yard get away with airy interpretations of what was intended etc. Seems heavy handed with people you know and somewhat trust, but it's in their interests too.

In the case of a garage, yard etc, the operators do have the upper hand in restraining you from removing your property until you have settled the bill. They don’t take possession, and they cannot sell the goods to settle the bill. It’s nuisance value. But it’s not their property to dispose of. One yard I know says on all its invoices – even when delivered some time after the work was done – “property may not be removed until payment received” This is of no value to anyone, but such practices persist in the belief they have value.

The small print will be increasingly important and will be relied on to protect a company from claims; damage to boats in storage, from collapsing cradles etc (one such case is current in these posts) from work not properly undertaken etc. Owners have to be aware of how limited is the responsibility that yards assume when we put our boats in their hands. Ownership is the responsibility, and it is not conveyed to a yard unless explicitly accepted, and the signal that this has occurred is usually conveyed through a charge.

Folks need to be alert to all this – some of it learnt the hard way, in my case.

In this specific case, stand firm. Challenge the yard to go to court, as a means of bringing it back to the negotiating table. It will have to lay out its case, and the owner then has the chance to present a counter argument. Many such cases are settled out of court – no one wants to spend time hanging about while the briefcases and wigs float here and there! And if the owner’s case has not been assembled in documentary form, now’s probably a good time, with substantial opinion to back it all up.

And sailing is supposed to be a sport…??

PWG

 

[EdWingfield]

When ships run around the world piling up debt they can be arrested by the Admiralty Marshall. Then, the debts must be settled to allow the ship to continue her lawful trade. If not, the vessel may be auctioned in order to pay the debts.

 

[philip_stevens]

And not just the ship in question, but any ship of the same company.

The ship I served on was arrested in Barcelona at one time due to the non-payment of a debt from another ship. The debt was soon paid to allow us to sail, but the master had to go to a court to get it all sorted out. We were delayed by a day.

 

[gjgm]

Id check the T+C (not that anyone saw them) of the boatyard/repairer. It maybe part of the contract.
OK £1000 is alot of money, but probably better to try to resolve as long as neither side is set on being the "winner".

OFT is a bit of an eye opener...you can be sure of two things.. law is alot more complex than you might think, and you have alot fewer legal arguments than you think !

 

[SoulFireMage]

Thanks for your advice guys.

Not sure yet how this will go. There's nothing written apart from an invoice given a couple of weeks ago. There's a professional third party basically looking at what's been done/not done to get at the truth of the matter. Seems the original work-2 main parts of it were done by a firm employed by the original company. I can't go into all the details but nothing was particularly formalised at all hence some difficulties really.

I got my fingers crossed.

 

[Alfie168]

The first thing I would do is write a formal polite letter to the yard outlining what you had asked to be done, and the shortcomings in the actual work that have made you so unhappy. Say that you are anxious for the matter to be resolved amicably, and that no reasonable payment for work done will be withheld. By the same token however you do expect your grievances to be taken seriously

You might continue in the vein that you have been happy with previous work (assuming you have of course) and had a good relationship and that you would not have acted as you have, had there not been a genuine grievance.

Its always worth a try.

Tim