Reply from Barrage Control re Queuing

Sneds

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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barrage Control Room [mailto:BarrageControlRoom@cardiff.gov.uk]
> Sent: 16 May 2008 12:25
> To: Iain Sneddon
> Cc: Williams, Clive
> Subject: RE: Lock procedure
>
> Dear Iain
>
> Thank you for your email, we are sorry your experience in using the
> Barrage locks was not as we would have wished. Unfortunately queue
> jumping does occasionally occur; we are investigating the incident you
> describe through our CCTV footage and we shall report any vessel that
> navigated without due care and diligence and report this to the Harbour
> Master for appropriate action.
>
> To help with understanding as to how we manage the locks and why we do
> not as a rule allocate specific spaces to vessels the below description
> on day to day locking may help.
>
>
> We allocate lock numbers to vessels as they call up and enter these onto
> a date base held within Barrage Control. These allocations can change
> due to subsequent vessels calling, vessels not arriving in the order in
> which they call or vessels not moving up and using available space. All
> vessels dimensions (beam, length, draft) have to be taken into
> consideration and the correct lock allocated to them.
>
> Our locking procedure is for 2 outbound lock times and 2 inbound lock
> times per hour. During busy periods such as weekends and Bank holidays
> (such as your visit) we try to turn the locks around as quickly as
> possible to avoid delays; which does mean that dependant on tide we can
> fit in a greater number of locks. This is particularly noticeable if we
> have large tidal range to deal with.
>
> If we were to stick to loading locks in the order to which they were
> booked or have a formal booking system, we would lose the flexibility
> of making use of the available space by squeezing small boats in
> alongside larger ones etc. We would also lose the ability to turn more
> locks around during busy periods.
>
> Other issues are with vessels that have had a lock allocated that do not
> turn up (a common problem when we had a booking system in place), with
> vessels that are un-contactable, and vessels arriving early which cause
> obstruction. So we have found from experience that it is more flexible
> and safer to load the locks as and when the boats arrive on station.
> This reduces queuing keeps the lock approaches clear and keeps lock
> delays to a minimum.
>
> We hope that this experience did not spoil your visit to Cardiff to much
> and that you managed to make the most of the good weather. It was one of
> our busiest weekends with our highest recorded boat movements through
> the locks (1210 over the two days)
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Cranmore
> Lock Manager
> Cardiff Barrage Control
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Iain Sneddon [mailto:ISneddon@clevelandcable.com]
> Sent: 13 May 2008 15:00
> To: Barrage Control Room
> Subject: Lock procedure
>
> Good Afternoon
>
> I thought I would bring to your attention the comments of a friend, who
> was on his first trip to Cardiff by sea at the weekend, in company with
> and following us.
> He was amazed, and I was a little perturbed, by the free for all
> scramble to enter the lock both on Saturday (inbound) and Sunday
> (outbound).
> While waiting to lock in we were "pushed" out of the way (not literally)
> by one of the yellow ribs that ply their trade in and around the bay, he
> obviously was not willing to wait his turn.
> Although we had booked an outbound lock on Sunday, we were again pushed
> out of the way by more than one sailing vessel, one of whom subsequently
> had to reverse out of the lock he had barged his way into as there was
> no room for him.
> I really think a more formal system of queuing should be introduced and
> enforced by barrage control in order to prevent collision, frayed nerves
> and quite possibly "lock rage!"
>
> Yours, with safety and good seamanship in mind
>
> Iain
> "Bush Baby"
 
Hi thats funny,thats exactly the same reply i had when we had a nasty expieriance trying to lock out,it is a free for all with the faster boats taking priority,i was a bit ashamed when freinds from Milford said they wont be coming back for that very reason,allthough they loved the bay,when i pressed B/control further silence is the order of the day.
Chris.
 
As I stated in a previous post I haven’t had the same experience as yourselves.
I was out Sunday and everyone seemed to enter in orderly fashion.

Coming back in we requested lock in and were told lock 1. They began filling lock 1 and then instructed us to use lock 2 instead as lock 1 was getting a bit tight. From my limited experience it appears to be a flexible system which works well.

I find the majority of people we have met in the locks to be friendly and helpful, there are as always exceptions to the rule but fortunately they seem to be in the minority.

I have never pre booked, I just turned up and requested lock in or out, to date straight forward. I suppose time will tell.
 
At the end of the day, I guess its not the Barrages fault. Although maybe they could exercise some control by watching boats go in and make a few comments if they thought it wrong.

It seems to me that some people just don't care and push in without a thought for anyone else. Just pure bad manners.

The problem is the commercial vessels, such as the yellow ribs and some fishing boats. Sorry, guys but those are the ones I noticed. They just go straight around everyone and straight in the lock.

Last weekend I ended up drifting in front of another boat, but I don't think for a minute he thought I was pushing in. It was clearly not intentional.

I think it is getting better, maybe because it regularly comes up as a topic of conversation on here. I hope so. Last weekends visit was far better.

Cardiff Bay is so good in other ways, this is a small but irritating issue. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
We use it loads but never had a real problem, seems to work ok as it is. I think Bristol works well but it is slightly different.
Bear in mind it is free and almost 24hr access.
Bit that annoys me is 2 quid per hour in Mermaid Quay.
 
It isnt 2 quid per hour its £1 per hour with a minimum charge of £2.

Its the minimum charge that annoys me.If your only stopping to get the kids an icecream or whatever its a bit harsh IMHO.

All mooring holders in the Bay allready pay a large wedge to use the harbour(I think its about £5 /foot of our mooring charges.)
 
Hey Graham, I think Andy jumped the queue there and forced his post in ahead of you.

Sorry......
 
Those bloody yellow ribs are getting worse, anyone would think they own the bay the way they behave and stir everything up. SWMBO's been very concerned on 2 occasions in the last couple of weeks with the behaviour of them. One nearly took us out last year as we left Mermaid Quay, he came storming throught the 5 knot markers bows up and didn't see us, bloody fool, I'd already turned away though because I was convinced he'd not seen us anyway. Only once have they tried to push into the lock in front of us though and I just kept going (perhaps arrogantly I do admit), personally I don't think they've anymore 'right' to be in the lock than anyone else.

/annoyed of penarth
 
They made a bee line for me on my little boat out by the islands and circled round me to give the punters a thrill,caused such a swirl i nearly spilt my tea,i am going to make a large sign out of ply saying "Fark off" and hold it up when they come near.
 
Well at least its better than Swansea where it seems to be official policy that the commercial boats get priority. I once had to hang around for 4 locks before I finally lost it and barged my way in.
 
I believe the barrage personnel do a fantastic job and are always very professional and calm even when the going gets tough. I also see the vessels who make their living going to sea being sometimes very impatient as they probably find the locks a tiresome event after a long day at sea or tedious coming in and out several times a day. So what's the solution?
Formal gate bookings I believe would become a nightmare for our barrage personnel as well as expensive ie, extra personnel, empty locks due to draught and equipment failure etc, and who would pay for this /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Yes the boaters.
I would much prefer to let the barrage staff continue to look out for our safety than have to police individuals who cross over our paths in a race to get home or to sea. And yes it does happen to us motor boaters as well, the only instant impact we can make is to name and shame them on this forum and ask our bay workers to put them in their book and then have a quiet chat to them before it becomes a insurance issue.
 
In the Netherlands where there is a lot of traffic through a lock, they have multiple locks, with one reserved for 'Sports' traffic, or rather sports traffic is banned from the main ones and relegated to the little one around the back.
There are also queueing locations where you tie up to await entry to the lock. First come, first served.
Lastly, the lock keeper (who may be in a remote location) is in control, must be obeyed at all times and will shout at anyone who incurs his displeasure.
It is only necessary to book a lock or bridge opening out of season, when the keeper has to make a special trip to do the business.
 
regarding the ribs pushing their way in
it is xtreme which is the worst one- yellow and black one rib, as my mate and me on his sailing yacht found out he barged /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif his way in while we where waiting to lock out last year in front of us and we ended up going along side him and having a little chat to him in front of his customers which included swearing, and my mate just laughed as i had a right go at him , me and my mate went to flat holm where we anchored off and he circled us making us spill our food /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif i think he is OTT as he is annoying genuine boat users with his antics , i'm experienced with boats as i'm in the sea cadets and I hold RYA level 2 displacement/planing/coastal /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif and safetyboat as well as 6 full seasons experience
i want to know what he has powerboat qually wise!!
 
Due to my mate being an idiot lol /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif, Me and my mate got the name wrong, it was jetskis due to it being in 2007 long time ago, I therefore Apologise to xtreme and Ryan , and Apologise for any Inconvience Caused /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Many Thanks
Viking SMB!
 
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