Replacing Wire Guard Rails with Dyneema?

[CJ13]

My plastic coated Wire Guard Rail Wires are 16 years old. The plastic coating has deteriorated to the point where it’s brown, sticky and broken in places. They really need replacing. Boat is in Greece so diy is the only practical solution.
The easy option would be to replace them with Dyneema. Probably 5mm single braid ( pure dyneema) or 6mm double braid (dyneema core with polyester cover). I’d add split plastic tube where the ‘wires’ go through the stanchions.
Has anyone done this - experience good or bad?

 

[Neeves]

I used Liros 5mm single braid, no cover. I bought a reel, our lifelines are about 10m each, and the excess I have progressively used for furling lines and our third reef (with tails to make handling more comfortable).

I did exactly what you propose. I too threaded plastic tube through the stanchions - compete waste of time. The theory is the original wire scores the holes in the stanchions leaving burrs that abrade the dyneema. Unless your old guard rail wires are atrocious - its not an issue, simply rub them with your finger - you will know if burred; smooth them off.

When you make them up make them as short as will fit - as the spliced, knots or the cordage itself beds in the cordage will 'stretch' but if they were tight and short to start with you will have plenty of space in the turn buckles to tighten.

Don't get over concerned with the task its relatively simple, just needs a bit of time and patience - ours are about 10 years old now.

When completed the life lines are no more comfortable than stainless - but if they fray - you will see it.

Jonathan

 

[geem]

We use 5mm stainless steel with stalok terminals and bottlescrews. Bar tight. Easy diy job. 11 years old and as good as new. The wire is run ING rigging wire so designed to go around sheaves. No burs

 

[coopec]

Dyneema® is safer: Easier to inspect and monitor - when Dyneema® wears it is obvious, as it is possible to see chafe and fuzzing on the cable. Stainless steel lifelines are often coated in a plastic coating which makes it impossible to easily examine the condition of the wire and terminations underneath.4 Feb 2019

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/214202/Would-you-trust-Dyneema-with-your-lifelines

 

[Daydream believer]

I think that people have been aware of the poor practice of using plastic coated wire for guard rails for a long time. So writing off ss wire on that basis is not credible. I have had uncoated SS wires for years & with decent stanchions there is no sign of damage. If one does see wear then the obvious thing is to replace the wire & deal with the cause of the wear. ie a sharp edge on the post hole. Some aluminium stanchion tops are sheathed with a metal liner & this wears through. That will cut any wire or dynema fairly quickly. That is not the fault of the line, it is the fault of the stanchion & should be repaired or replaced.

 

[coopec]

I've used 5mm SS with duplex cable clamps

 

[geem]

Dyneema® is safer: Easier to inspect and monitor - when Dyneema® wears it is obvious, as it is possible to see chafe and fuzzing on the cable. Stainless steel lifelines are often coated in a plastic coating which makes it impossible to easily examine the condition of the wire and terminations underneath.4 Feb 2019
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/214202/Would-you-trust-Dyneema-with-your-lifelines

Don't use plastic coating. My s/s wire looks like new after 11 years

 

[coopec]

AUSTRALIAN SAILING SPECIAL REGULATIONS PART 1 ...​

AUSTRALIAN SAILING
SPECIAL REGULATIONS
PART 1
FOR RACING BOATS
And
Recommended for Cruising Boats​

7 Oct 2022 — (a). Where lifelines are fitted they shall be either: i. stranded stainless steel wire. Steel lifelines shall be uncoated and used without close-fitting ..

 

[Daydream believer]

I seem to recall Dynema being banned on some racing yachts by a particular federation. This is because a large yacht had a failure when it let out a lot of spinnaker sheet & it burned through a point in the dynema where it crossed the guardrail.
Some time ago & my memory is hazy on the matter but someone may recall the incident.

 

[Sandy]

I've just done this using Marlow Reflective Lifeline , see my post from April 2022 Marlow Reflective Lifeline

I purchased the lifeline from Alspars in Plymouth; as it was a special order and took a couple of weeks to arrive. It is a bit more expensive than 'naked dyneema' really easy to install, just a couple of brummal locking splices and some whipping, and is far more gentle on the hand than wire.

There are some good YouTube videos showing what people have done.

 

[coopec]

I seem to recall Dynema being banned on some racing yachts by a particular federation. This is because a large yacht had a failure when it let out a lot of spinnaker sheet & it burned through a point in the dynema where it crossed the guardrail.
Some time ago & my memory is hazy on the matter but someone may recall the incident.

World Sailing (then ISAF) initially accepted Dyneema lifelines in 2012, but then banned it from all offshore racing in 2015.24 Aug 2021

Revised Lifeline Protection Plan

 

[thinwater]

The burn-through incident was on Comanche, a maxi yacht. Not really relevant.

The main source of trouble, which has little to do with cruising yachts, is the practice of hanging rail meat on the lower lifeline. Some will slack the lifelines just so they can lean farther. If there is any left over burr it will saw. The other problem is converting from bare wire (which created burrs) to naked Dyneema without pollishing the holes or applying chafe guards. I have not heard of a failure where chafe guards were present (post if you know of one, but I'm betting there is no such case), and race committees are justafiably conservative re. racers taking shortcuts.

(note the lack of toe rail and the slack starboard lifeline)

I like bare SS just fine, but I do have Dyneema gates and a few Dyneema a fill-in lines

 

[noelex]

Our lifelines are 8mm Dyneema. They are nicer to handle, lighter, easier to replace and don’t produce any dissimilar metal problems. The only downside is that birds seem to like perching on them a little more than on stainless.

The boatbuilder added some extra chafe protection where the lines pass through the stanchions.

 

[KeithMD]

I've just done this using Marlow Reflective Lifeline

Sandy, is this the same stuff?
REFLECTIVE STATIC - Marlow Ropes Ltd

 

[Sandy]

Sandy, is this the same stuff?
REFLECTIVE STATIC - Marlow Ropes Ltd

Mine is black with a white reflective thread.

 

[KeithMD]

OK, I'll confess - I can't tell whether they've changed the product or it's discontinued, or what.

"Reflective Static is available in white as standard, but can be manufactured to order in solid colours"

Reflective | Marlow Ropes Ltd

 

[Sandy]

OK, I'll confess - I can't tell whether they've changed the product or it's discontinued, or what.

"Reflective Static is available in white as standard, but can be manufactured to order in solid colours"

Reflective | Marlow Ropes Ltd

I wonder if it has been discontinued, the lifeline was 4mm and needed to be ordered. The stuff you have the link for is 11mm.

I think you are in Plymouth, if so pop in to Allspars and have a chat with them.

Perhaps Rope Locker at Dawlish or Jimmy Green can help. I don't buy rope off ebay as I want to make sure its genuine, especially in a F8 50 NM offshore while putting in a second reef well after I first thought of it.

 

[KeithMD]

Re Jimmy Green

I searched for "Reflective"
Search
No joy there.

But they do have various web and fibre guard rails
Guard Rails in Fibre and Webbing

 

[thinwater]

Chafe protection:

Single braid, like Amsteel, is basically shit for side-to-side chafe. Polyester DB is just as chafe resistant side to side as Amsteel (tested it on a pendulum rig--I have).

Chafe resistance comes from a tight braid with side-to-side fibers. This is why webbing does so well, MUCH better than rope. The weave is actually more important than the fiber in many cases.

The other thing about chafe covers is that they can float separate from the line. They are not sawed in the same way as a rope.

 

[ash2020]

Can I ask, the best way to finish the ends of Dyneema lifelines?