replacing varnish on toerails/grab handles

[gregcope]

Hi,

My toe rail and grab handle varnish are peeling off.

I believe the wood is teak, and once exposed goes from a mid-brown to gery quite quickly.

A few questions;

1. How to remove the rest? Scraper, peel or nitromors?
2. How to get back to the mid-brown colour?
3. What to replace with?

Ta.

 

[PetiteFleur]

Others will be able to advise on varnishing etc but after varnishing make up some acrylic canvas covers so they are covered up when you leave the boat. My handrails are mahogany and varnished 6 years ago and I'll have to revarnish them this year or next. The covers cover the rails and fastened with velcro to itself in the handholds. Before I fitted covers I was revarnishing every two years.

 

[VicS]

I found a Skarsten scraper quite effective but a bit brutal if not used carefully.

Skartsen are NLA but Sandvik & Bahco do similar scrapers.

Assuming a grp boat avoid Nitromors unless you can protect the GRP.

Best coating I have found so far is Sikkens Cetol Marine ( natural) but I beleive it has been discontinued.

Good results have been reported with Sikkens Cetol Novatech and Novatop although the literature says not suitable for oily wood!

 

[Simes]

We have a goodly amount of Mahogany out side. and a lot of teak inside (I know, go figure) The Mahogany is kept upto date with a annual coat of International Schooner Gold. The teak was scraped and sanded until the lovely brown colour came back, now wipe the surface oil off with a Meths soaked cloth. Then I let the International Schooner (not Schooner Gold this time) down by 1/3rd with Meths for the first coat. Two coats later and we have a lovely deep shine that 6 years later is still a joy to look at.

The outside wood I have resolved to varnish once a year with the Schooner Gold, nice varnish to use and smells fantastic.

Simes

 

[xtiffer]

Use a good scraper and a heat gun.
Sand with P120 then P220.
Cover with 4 coats of Epifanes PP ( a good 2 pot hard primer)
and then as many coats of Epifanes Normal 1 pot as you like.
Very good earlier advice to get covers made; that will save you
so much work.
Rinse off any salt water EVERY TIME you have been out.
That's what I prefer and I'm a pro-varnisher, although there are
other options that would do just as well.
BTW I would never use International varnish. If the owner insisted I would decline the job.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[Poignard]

BTW I would never use International varnish. If the owner insisted I would decline the job.
Cheers,
Chris

Would you decline the job if the owner wanted you to use Le Tonkinois?

 

[prv]

I have a teak rubbing strake that the previous owner had varnished. Since the very raison d'etre of a rubbing strake is to get knocked or abraded occasionally, this wasn't really a good idea and the varnish was in a bad way when we got the boat.

I scraped off the remains of it with a hand scraper (can't remember the brand; it took replaceable blades and was pretty effective) followed by a light hand sanding. This restored it to the lovely golden colour of fresh teak, but of course it would quickly go grey if left untreated. Any coating that sits on top would quickly be worn away like the varnish by fender lanyards etc, so instead I oil it.

It does need topping up during the season, but it's easy to do - just slop some oil on a rag and rub it in. Last time I did it was while sailing downwind back from the Scuttlebutt Cherbourg meet - as good a way as any of killing time!

The rails on my cabin top I varnish with Epifanes. Not sure what timber they're made of.

Pete

 

[xtiffer]

Would you decline the job if the owner wanted you to use Le Tonkinois?

No but I would strongly recommend my alternative.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[Evadne]

I have a teak rubbing strake that the previous owner had varnished. Since the very raison d'etre of a rubbing strake is to get knocked or abraded occasionally, this wasn't really a good idea and the varnish was in a bad way when we got the boat.

I scraped off the remains of it with a hand scraper (can't remember the brand; it took replaceable blades and was pretty effective) followed by a light hand sanding. This restored it to the lovely golden colour of fresh teak, but of course it would quickly go grey if left untreated. Any coating that sits on top would quickly be worn away like the varnish by fender lanyards etc, so instead I oil it.



Pete

We do the same, use Danish oil and it usually lasts all season. Recently moored next to a very pretty wooden boat with a varnished toe rail, he used split pipes to protect it from being rubbed as people step aboard.

 

[theoldsalt]

+1

Gave up external varnishing years ago.

Now always use Dutch Oil.


Edit : I should have stated Danish Oil

 

[gregcope]

Thanks all.

Seems a epiphanies or sikkens.

I think it should be possible to get it all off reasonably easily with a gun or scraper as it is peeling in nice 2cm square chunks.

Covers not possible as this is a toe rail and coachroof grab handles.

 

[xtiffer]

Covers not possible as this is a toe rail and coachroof grab handles.

Covers definitely possible.
Think velcro tabs.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[gregcope]

Ah. Good point not thought I had not thought of that!

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

Covers definitely possible.
Think velcro tabs.
Cheers,
Chris

What would you use to cover standard wood toerails with scupper holes/gaps? - canvas/velcro? - long strips with velcro attached to what? ... Would you make something up yourself or do you know someone (website?) who makes such things? (always more reliable I find!)

 

[Lady Campanula]

Talking to a clued-up young boatbuilder on the Antal stall at SIBS, he recommended a carbide-blade varnish scraper, and that Axminster Tools could provide. Now, I've had good service and advice from Axminster over the years so, passing along the A30 a week or so later, I thought to detour the 25 miles south and get me one of them things.

Upstairs I asked about the scrapers, and also for some guidance about some screws I needed. "We only do ordinary plain screws. You'll need to go to a specialist fasteners' place for they..." Fair enough, I thought, until walking away between the various display racks and spotting a large standalone display of 'Spax' screw fasteners of a score of different types and more sizes. Exactly what I wanted. Odd.

Downstairs, I found the Bahco scrapers and selected one, with some spare blades and a half-dozen other handtools, and queued to pay. The salesman was arguing with another customer, who was ordering an expensive bandsaw from the catalogue. "No, I don't care that the catalogue says there's a Type XYZ blade included," declared the salesman. "I write the adverts, and it's wrong. That blade is extra." Said customer declined, and left, disappointed.

My turn....

"I've selected this carbide scraper handle ( £15.35 ) which comes with a 50mm blade. These here are 65mm replacement blades, which I'd like, Could you please confirm for me that they will fit this handle, too?" I asked - although it seemed certain, without disturbing the packaging.

"No. They'll overhang the edge. If you want to use 65mm blades, you'll need to buy the more expensive handle ( £20.80 )," asserted the salesman.

"That's odd," said I. "The handles and the blade-grips on the two scrapers seem identical. Only the extra knob on the expensive one seems different...."

"Are you disagreeing with me...?" challenged the salesman.

"No, I've just decided to go elsewhere for these products."

Axminster Tools clearly have changed their ethos. Maybe it's me, but I didn't have any bullsnit from Amazon, so they got the order - at better than 40% cheaper. And will by preference in the future.

 

[Poignard]

A lot of the people who work in toolshops nowadays don't know any more than "what it says on the tin".

Maybe they are not motivated, underpaid, just killing time until they get their big break on X-factor, or have learned that giving advice to customers is a minefield where you can fall victim to the 'blame culture' that bedevills this country. ("You told me it would be ok to use a 65mm blade in this 50mm holder but a bit snapped off the end when I lent on it and blinded me etc etc")

Unfortunately that's the way it is nowadays and we are partly to blame for it. In general, we are not prepared to pay the prices that old-fashioned hardware shops, (staffed by experienced men who knew all about what they are selling and had time to chat and give advice), would have to charge to make a profit. So, they have mostly gone out of business and we are left with 'stack'em high - sell 'em cheap' warehouses.

I feel better now I've written that. Ah, here's those two big psychiatric nurses coming to give me my tranquillisers.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Others will be able to advise on varnishing etc but after varnishing make up some acrylic canvas covers so they are covered up when you leave the boat. My handrails are mahogany and varnished 6 years ago and I'll have to revarnish them this year or next. The covers cover the rails and fastened with velcro to itself in the handholds. Before I fitted covers I was revarnishing every two years.

I now have a boat with half a tropical rainforest on/in it.
I've asked many peoples advice on varnishing. One person who runs a family,Thames based, classic boat renovation Co', says exactly the same as PetiteFleur. 'When not in use put a cover over the exterior varnish, whatever varnish you use'.

He also thinks the same as Parsival and me... use Tonkinois.


1. How to remove the rest? Scraper, peel or nitromors? All may be suitable. Careful scraping as you don't want to gouge.
2. How to get back to the mid-brown colour? Some people use Oxalic acid to get rid of stains. Classic boat supply companies may help more.
3. What to replace with? I tend to leave as much of my exterior teak 'grey'. If you seal it with varnish it will need very regular maintenance and if water gets beneath it, it may stain. Otherwise try Tonkinois.

 

[xtiffer]

What would you use to cover standard wood toerails with scupper holes/gaps? - canvas/velcro? - long strips with velcro attached to what? ... Would you make something up yourself or do you know someone (website?) who makes such things? (always more reliable I find!)

I live in Turkey and here we are blessed with artisans who come round, look at the job the go away and do it cheaply.
The rail cover I have seen had velcro tabs around the stanchions and some ties through the drain holes.
It was in 3 pieces each side agaın joined by velcro.
I did all the varnish 2 years ago and it still looks terrific.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Talking about covering varnish up, I wonder what does most damage... sun or frost?

 

[Niander]

does oiling the wood go black?