Replacement for flares?

oldbilbo

oldbilbo

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Peering into my flares container and recognising that almost all of them are now well past their 'Use By' dates, replacing them would bite deeply into my store of beer tokens. Too deeply....

I'm intrigued by the 'Odeo laser beacon' featured in the most recent Yachting Monthly mag.

Now, I have a pair of EPIRBS, a pair of powerful milspec strobes, more than one splashproof VHF, lots of mobile phones, a small tar barrel I could set alight, and an aversion to getting into trouble that might need someone else to pluck me out of it. So, what d'you reckon? Keep the Mehm'sahib happy by buying a laser strobe - or have a root around at Beaulieu for some short-lifed red smokes....?
 
Have to say I've been deeply unimpressed with every picture and video I've seen of laser flares in use. They tend to show a comparison picture of a guy bathed in bright light from a conventional flare, and then another where you can just see a little red twinkly dot.

Given your collection of electronical ways of summoning help to your general area, perhaps you should just scale back on the pyrotechnics. How about a day/night double-ender or two to say "Over here!" when people come looking?

Pete
 
Just buy a pair of orange smoke and red HH to alert the LB or helio of your location.

"They tend to show a comparison picture of a guy bathed in bright light from a conventional flare, and then another where you can just see a little red twinkly dot"

This may well be the case, but dont forget what you are trying to achieve is to alert an approaching rescuer of your location, not create a light which will make you look like Day Mellon finishing an epic trip. I'm sure the laser is designed to fulfil this need.
 
oldbilbo said:
I'm intrigued by the 'Odeo laser beacon' featured in the most recent Yachting Monthly mag.
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Likewise, ever since it was first promoted on these forums several years ago. It seems to me to be the only laser device that come close to resembling the appearance and omni directional nature of a pyrotechnic.

I knew there was reason why id gone to the magazine shelves in JS last week. I looked at PBO but nothing of interest but did not think to look at YM.
 
great fan though I am of laser devices, I'd be reluctant to rely on a device which, in fog or mist, could lose visibility distance through back-scatter. None of the laser advertisers want to talk about how quickly a very small thin beam attentuates if it keeps bouncing off droplets of water.

Some bedtime reading on the topic:-
http://www.lightpointe.com/images/L...omparison_of_laser_beam_propagation_MRV_7.pdf

"Attenuation can vary from .2 dB/km in exceptionally clear weather, to 310 dB/km in a very dense UK fog.
These large attenuation values in heavy fog are important because they can reduce the uptime or availability of lasercom systems."




Laser pointers do have their uses in waking up big ship drivers :)



It would be handy to have some figures for light output from a laser device and compare them with those of standard flares.
 
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sarabande said:
... None of the laser advertisers want to talk about how quickly a very small thin beam attentuates if it keeps bouncing off droplets of water. ...
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My first reaction is that the back-scatter would be the same for a wide as for a narrow beam. (As in using dipped-beam in fog.) But I suppose the effect could be similar to defocusing. The laser depends on being focused for its reach whereas the pyrotechnic isn't focused in the first place. So the effect ends up being very different...

Mike.
 
You could buy a pack of 10 pen flares
I have a pack to carry in my pocket.
I bought a load of other flares at the same time but i seem to recall that they were £48-00
They fire into the air & burn for about 5 secs
Thing is that anyone ashore or on another boat generally knows what they are for
Lazers have limited use unless rescue services are actually searching for you & are actively looking for a marker
Orange cannisters are really only ok in daylight & then only to locate a search service
A lifeboat was looking for me & asked me to fire a flare even though i gave the gps position
A pen flare would have done it. Only problem was that i was too ill to fire any flare or point a lazer
Also seas were very big & a lazer would have been out of sight for a lot of the time
I could not see the lifeboat when only a couple of wavelengths away although i could see the glare of his lights above him
So i feel a lazer would not have worked very well
 
I think "laser flares" are useless if you fire a normal flare into the sky there is no doubt what ever what it is and because if it height it can be seen beyond the horizon. Laser flares cannot be seen beyond the horizon and I doubt they ail alert anyone as the untrained eye will not tell the difference between them and a port navigation light.
 
Overpriced !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oldbilbo said:
Peering into my flares container and recognising that almost all of them are now well past their 'Use By' dates, replacing them would bite deeply into my store of beer tokens. Too deeply....

I'm intrigued by the 'Odeo laser beacon' featured in the most recent Yachting Monthly mag.

Now, I have a pair of EPIRBS, a pair of powerful milspec strobes, more than one splashproof VHF, lots of mobile phones, a small tar barrel I could set alight, and an aversion to getting into trouble that might need someone else to pluck me out of it. So, what d'you reckon? Keep the Mehm'sahib happy by buying a laser strobe - or have a root around at Beaulieu for some short-lifed red smokes....?
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I posted a while ago in this thread:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...from-Greatland-lasers/page4&highlight=tim_ber

number 31 I think.

I bought an LED sos device that fits in my pocket AT ALL TIMES.

The same website sells instructions (very cheaply) on how to make red and white flares for about 30 pence a pop that I have made and they last longer than my 'proper flares' in burn time AND they produce less 'spittle, as there is less magnesium in them and I do not have to wear leather gloves (last 'proper flare' I ended up dropping because it got so hot). The company cannot make and sell flares for obvious reasons, but a sensible person following their sensible instructions can make excellent waterproof flares.

I still purchase parachute flares and the mini rocket flares.
All stored in a metal ammo box

I looked at the odeo flare. It has increased in price from £149 to £179, it is too large to fit in my pocket, it has motors that could fail.

The website is www.newboatgear.co.uk

My only interest is that I was allowed to visit the company, chat to the director, (an engineer recently made redundant and trying to carve out his own income) and pick up a bag full of goods I bought. He would have posted, but I live nearby by chance and I could choose some clothing after trying it on.

The owner is trying to join this forum he told me, but having trouble with the moderation length of time - only 2 posts made it to forum out of 15 in month he said. As far as I can make out he has the same principles as Salty John; good products at a good value with excellent customer service.

From a happy customer (with more red and white handheld flares than I hope I will ever need that cost about 30 pence to make in my garage!)

I would not recommend letting silly teenagers have the knowledge or even any adults that do not take safety seriously although the instructions are explicit and clear.

I have sailed for 20 years or more and never had an incident, but still carry all safety gear just as I wear a seatbelt in my car and have never had an accident.
 
Old Bilbo,

I was given a bunch of double ended day / night military flares, then recently when they reached 30+ yrs old I decided I didn't trust them so set them off on November 5th - we're 40 miles inland and I had the flares in a workmate bench, fired by a line while wearing safety kit.

Every one of the flares fired correctly, both ends; now I'm not suggesting for a moment one should rely on old flares, but it was a bit thought provoking re the money I'd just wasted !

Of course there are tales of ancient flares spontaneously combusting which might spoil or even cancel one's day; I think I'll carry flares as attention getters for the time being, but an EPIRB, PLB* and a good torch must be handy.

* Did you see the recent YBW story about a singlehanded ocean racing hero who fell overboard and watched his boat sail off on autopilot ?

I can't imagine how that felt, BUT he had a PLB and was collected a couple of hours later by the next competitor, then they raced to catch his boat.

They got her, then plonked him back on board !

I can't help thinking some sort of remote control would be nice, I've long suggested trailing a long thin line led over the pushpit which would pull up and disengage a tiller pilot, a wheel autopilot might take a bit more thought.
 
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I ssem to remember reading in the latest RNLI magazine that they specifically do not yet recommend laser flares as a means of achieving a succesful rescue. This is not to say they are not useful at all. But it looks as though a reliable favourable comparison with traditional pyrotechnics is yet to be performed.
 
Seajet said:
I can't help thinking some sort of remote control would be nice, I've long suggested trailing a long thin line led over the pushpit which would pull up and disengage a tiller pilot, a wheel autopilot might take a bit more thought.
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There is a bit of kit advertised somewhere on the internet where a person grabs a towed line, a sort of board comes to him which he lays on. The board then gets dragged back to the boat ( which is doing 6kts) & he steps aboard in less than a minute
Not sure how to find it now
 
Seajet said:
I can't help thinking some sort of remote control would be nice, I've long suggested trailing a long thin line led over the pushpit which would pull up and disengage a tiller pilot, a wheel autopilot might take a bit more thought.
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The Raymarine wheel pilot would be fine - if anything easier than a tiller. It has a lever on the side which you pull out/downwards to disengage, so a loop could be dropped over that. A proper below-decks pilot would be a bit more involved; I think what I would do is put a switch in the clutch wire, of a suitable type and location to connect the line to.

The whole concept is still rather iffy though - the boat is not going to stop dead just because the autopilot has disengaged. Upwind, KS would keep a straight course for a minute or more without a hand on the tiller. And even once the sails are stalled, the boat is likely to drift downwind faster than her skipper can swim.

Best not to fall off :)

Pete
 
Hello,, Lasers are difficult to take photos of and portray what the eye sees. The point source of the laser is small and the pyro flare is quite large in comparison. Also, up close like shown in the video, the laser projections haven't had the distance required to expand to hit the camera properly. That's a good thing because it is easy on your mates in the raft and they are not bathed in laser light. Back off a few miles and the eye sees the laser better than the pyro.

The advantage of the laser flares is that they are distinct from other light sources, they don't burn out, and they can be seen for miles, for hours. The ODEO will meet the requirements in the USA to replace pyrotechnics as the alternatives to pyrotechnics standards are finally being drafted. This process is starting May 9 in the USA by the RTCM for the USCG and should be completed in 12 months
 
VisionQuest said:
"....Back off a few miles and the eye sees the laser better than the pyro..... The advantage of the laser flares is that they are distinct from other light sources, they don't burn out, and they can be seen for miles, for hours. The ODEO will meet the requirements in the USA to replace pyrotechnics...."
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I'm certainly interested in a viable alternative to ( some of ) the standard pack of flares, which is a recurring expense. As I was taught by RAF Sea Survival experts that a heliograph, in daylight/sunshine, can be seen for many miles, so a laser flare might do similar duty at night. I'm thinking of the Inverse Square Law losses in terms of flares' visibility/intensity, and just how difficult it is to spot a liferaft from a searching aircraft - even in good conditions....

Please keep us ( me! ) informed of significant developments re USCG validation.
 
oldbilbo said:
I'm certainly interested in a viable alternative to ( some of ) the standard pack of flares, which is a recurring expense. As I was taught by RAF Sea Survival experts that a heliograph, in daylight/sunshine, can be seen for many miles, so a laser flare might do similar duty at night. I'm thinking of the Inverse Square Law losses in terms of flares' visibility/intensity, and just how difficult it is to spot a liferaft from a searching aircraft - even in good conditions....

Please keep us ( me! ) informed of significant developments re USCG validation.
Click to expand...

Mind you you may need a marine mortgage after it has USCG certification
 
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