Replace Standing Rigging

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Carronade

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I intend replacing the rigging on my Colvic Motor Sailer 31. There is a view that all the rigging components need replacing at the same time. My Surveyor has expressed an opinion that the wire (1/19) holding the mast caps, inners, forestay and backstays. should all be replaced if there are any signs of wear. He does not think it necessary to replace the bottle screws as they all seem to be in good condition. Besides which the boat is a motor sailer and the stress on the rigging is very much less than with a dedicated sailing yacht or racing boat.

This view is not shared by some riggers who think that the whole 'gang' needs to be replaced. There is also a body of opinion that chrome on Bronze is better than Stainless Steel. I have always used Stainless Steel as using mixed metals is never a good practice. Also Stainless is a stronger more durable material and should last longer.

Would appreciate opinions on this issue
 
I've just had the whole shooting match replaced (including chainplates) as it was all about 15 years old. However after a few years I will just replace piecemeal. Maybe after 10 years I will replace the cap shrouds, the year after the lowers etc. This keeps them all within the age required for insurance but avoids a big bill for replacing all at once.

I would think that bottlescrews could be checked for problems, but in honesty I would replace them at the same time.
 
I dont think stainless is more durable than bronze. if you compare bottle screws of the same size you will find the bronze ones consistantly rated with a higher breaking strain. Also, on threads you can get issues with s/s on s/s picking up on each other. I dont think this happens so readily with s/s and bronze.
I will be replacing my bottle screws with Bronze ones.
 
I've had two riggers (on different boats) advise keeping and re-using the rigging screws. They both stood to gain from supplying the new ones if I had continued with my intention of replacing, so I was inclined to take their advice at face value.

I have heard it suggested that a mixture of stainless and bronze is best, as all-stainless can jam together. I haven't experienced this myself.

Pete
 
My rigger reused the bottle screws on our Centaur but the rigger who did our moody changed them out - so I guess it's horses for courses ! They were both friends of ours and had little to gain financially.
If there is no wear in them then why change them ?
 
prv said:
...as all-stainless can jam together. I haven't experienced this myself.
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It's called 'galling' and it is very...er...galling. Usually, both items are write-offs. Aluminium-on-aluminium and titanium-on-titanium (you should be so lucky) are also prone to it. The use of anti-seize materials reduces, but can't eliminate, the possibility of galling. Careful cleaning of threads also helps.
See such as: http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=13
 
I have said on here before but in my opinion bronze body rigging screws are the best, ask most riggers and they will say the same! I use Sta Lok but others people also make them. The Colvic 31 has 6mm rigging and if I was changing the wires I would ask to see the rigging screws and check the condition, only recently I had some screws sent to me and when checked found hair line cracks in the body, they were stainless bodies, we ended up changing them all!
 
Just had all mine replaced. Considering the price of individual bottle screws, the difference in price between re-using and replacing was surprisingly small so I replaced. Agree that chromed bronze are generally considered the better option but I've never had any problem with either in the past. Continued with bronze this time. Chromed bronze do seem to deteriorate cosmetically more than S/S but it takes 10 or so years to happen.
 
Carronade said:
There is also a body of opinion that chrome on Bronze is better than Stainless Steel. I have always used Stainless Steel as using mixed metals is never a good practice. Also Stainless is a stronger more durable material and should last longer.

Would appreciate opinions on this issue
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The body of opinion is dead right! Chromed bronze turnbuckle bodies are a much superior product. Bronze is as strong as stainless, doesn't gall or suffer from crevice corrosion.
In fact there are no downsides to bronze whatsoever.
The design of the bronze turnbuckle is also often better with 'open bodies' allowing easier inspection of how much thread is engaged.

In contrast it's hard to think of single criteria where all stainless turnbuckles are better (except perhaps cost). I actually think they rank lower than galvanised turnbuckles or deadeyes and lanyards in the order of merit and should be consigned to the 'boat design' skip along with gate valves.
 
Best, yes. Bronze body to stainless ends.
On replacing the turnbuckles and various small joining fittings - it's important to check for wear (holes must be round and tight fit...), cracks, corrosion etc. As long as none is found they're OK to use.
1x19 wire is not dependable in itself, may have invisible cracks or fatigue when older; safer to replace.
One hint - on such a boat as heavy Colvic you may choose a 7x7 or even 7x16 wire, this is more elastic, more resistant to shock loadings or bending, and more reliable as it will not fail unnoticed, will start with breaking individual wires - since there are many wires in the line it will still work OK if a few break, which is a comfortable thought when at sea...
7x7 for same strength is a bit more diameter (say 7mm instead of 6 mm 1x19) but about the same weight.
 
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A very interesting and informative thread; useful as ever!

Without wanting to hijack it, while I'm lying down in a darkened room, can you please "break it to me gently" Ball park cost to replace the standing rigging of a 36ft AWB?

Many thanks.
 
Assuming the 36' boat had 8mm wires and a single spreader rig IE Forestay, 2 x Caps, 4 x Lowers and a single backstay you would be looking about £1100.00 to £1200.00. This price would include Chrome Bronze Rigging screws. The wire size of 8mm is probably the max size wire and could even be 7mm however the difference between 7 and 8mm is small.This price is approx but gives you some idea. Boats of 40' would normally have 10mm wire.
This price is a guide only and does not include removing the existing wire from the mast, unstepping or any other additional costs if a boat has a furling gear.
Hope this helps!
 
Thanks, kind of you to reply. Not as "bad" as I had feared, to be honest. She's actually double spreader. Shrouds are 7mm, babystay is 5 mm, backstay is double into single of 6mm; I don't know the forestay as I haven't measured it, furl in the way! I'll add a bit to your figure for a budget.
 
I'd do the lot. The cost savings are not big enough to warrant doing the job multiple times / in bits. Do it once and then you can relax knowing its all new (keep checking it of course!). Makes it easier for the survey and insurance I guess too.
 
Carronade said:
Would appreciate opinions on this issue
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what it is - a matter of opinion.

I've always replaced the wire and the swages but not the chromed bronze bottle screws. The logic is that stainless work hardens where it bends coming out of swages - bottle screws dont bend and in any case dont work harden. the case for bronze is that it doesnt gall and cold weld the way stainless does.

fatigue not load is the issue with rigging - yet to hear of one failing through load alone in normal use
 
Carronade said:
I intend replacing the rigging on my Colvic Motor Sailer 31.

My Surveyor has expressed an opinion that the wire (1/19) holding the mast caps, inners, forestay and backstays. should all be replaced if there are any signs of wear. He does not think it necessary to replace the bottle screws as they all seem to be in good condition. Besides which the boat is a motor sailer and the stress on the rigging is very much less than with a dedicated sailing yacht or racing boat.
Would appreciate opinions on this issue
Click to expand...

Has your surveyor ever been out in a force 6/7 in a motor 31' sailer ??

I would replace the lot with all Stainless steel, one day when you hit bad weather you sure will be pleased you replaced the lot as you will have plenty of other things to worry about!

Mike
 
+ 1. Exactly as above. Heavy boat may have her rig loaded a lot more, simply because she can stand up to it, not laying on ear to show it's too much.
Cannot agree with said earlier "bottle screws do not bend" - they may, various toggles are fitted (or not...) but sometime they bend. This must be checked. But they may still be all right while the wire needs replacement. I have 40 years old motorsailer (Seadog30, high rig) which probably works harder than on Colvic. All rigging sound, still thinking whether to replace or not, will decide when taken down ;) But good quality first place, and soft wire. No swages.

In your case I would replace all for peace of mind - turnbuckles may be left if really good but as those are all stainless I'd go for bronze instead. All small pieces as pins or such should be replaced anyway. Look also at chainplates and mast fittings if these are of flat stainless, cracks from bending are possible.
 
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Scarboroughsloop said:
I've just had the whole shooting match replaced (including chainplates) as it was all about 15 years old. However after a few years I will just replace piecemeal. Maybe after 10 years I will replace the cap shrouds, the year after the lowers etc. This keeps them all within the age required for insurance but avoids a big bill for replacing all at once.

I would think that bottlescrews could be checked for problems, but in honesty I would replace them at the same time.
Click to expand...

+1 from me....
 
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