Regal 242 - Bad surprise in shower sump pump bilge - Help?

[Parisianzee]

Hello all!

In the continuation of me discovering my new-to-me 1998 Regal 242, I have made a bad discovery a couple of days ago.

I knew the bilge under the mid-cabin was a bit oily and dirty from the photos taken during the survey, but I had never imagined it to be this bad. When I opened it, I realised that the shower sump pump was not working and the box in which it sits was full of water, as was the bilge everywhere around it. You can see all the photos and details in this blog post.

Armed with a bucket and a hand pump, I pumped out about 10 buckets of filthy water which I equate to roughly 50-100 litres. Then I open the shower sump pump's box and emptied that too. Once that was done, I tried to see if there was any power coming from the cables into the pump: nothing, 0.

With this very high level summary ... I'm left with two key questions:

- Does anyone have any idea where I need to start searching for power on those cables to either re-establish power to the pump or just replace the probably dead pump with a new one? I started looking for a fuse of some sort somewhere but couldn't find it. And the hole to access that bilge is very tiny. Any pointers would be much appreciated!

- How do I get the bilge properly clean? I believe it's not supposed to be wet and disgusting down there? Unfortunately after removing all that water, all that is now left is a very thick oily substance that will not pump out with my hand pump, and that is equally almost impossible to remove with a sponge (the sponge won't absorb it). Again, any ideas?

Thanks for your help, all!

 

[Freebee]

Try a search there are many threads on cleaning bilges!!!

 

[jac]

Try oil absorbant mat or booms from your local swindelry although they work best with oily water rather than just sludge. If it is that thick then you might be better off just scooping it. Maybe a dinghy bailer?

Once you have the solids out then Bilgex is the usual weapon of choice. shove some in, I often mix with boiling water if it's bad then leave to soak the oil off, chuck in an oil absorbanty matt, dispose of mat and then pump out.

As for the pump.

Multimeter at the point where the pump is connected to the power cable. If power detected then it's a pump fault. If not then work back, try both sides of the switch to determine where the break lies then replace from that point. If the pump is relatively easy to remove then you could always apply power directly from a know good source ( e.g. direct from the battery) to see if it works.

 

[RichardS]

Is this some kind of automatic shower pump or do you have to operate a switch or push button? My showers have a push button in the shower cubicle so if I was checking for a voltage at the pump I would have to ask someone to hold down the button whilst I was checking.

Of course, the circuit has to be switched live at the main switch panel as well.

Richard

 

[Norman_E]

You are never likely to have a totally dry bilge with that type of shower drain arrangement. The problem is that in order to work a box containing a pump and float switch cannot have its lid perfectly sealed as air has to get out as the level inside rises, so any failure of pump or switch results in water escaping. Whether you are pumping water from the shower and any other connected outlets such as a washbasin, to a holding tank or the sea, it is a much better idea to replace the present arrangement with a diaphram pump switched by a push button. On my boat the pump is placed in the cabinet under washbasin and the shower waste is piped upwards to the pump. A non return valve fitted into the vertical hose from shower tray to pump has a tee piece directly above it where the basin waste is connected. Pressing the pump switch empties the basin as the the non return valve stays closed, but if the basin plug is put in the non return valve opens and the pump empties the shower tray. By this means a single pump will empty either basin or shower.

 

[Rafiki]

When dealing with electrics on boats I have found one of the most useful bits of kit is one of those small 12v batteries as used on lawn mowers etc ( which is why my electric start mower is now only hand start!). You can then use the battery and a couple of small bits of wire and crocodile clips to quickly check if the pump or whatever actually works if power gets to it.
On my boat shower pump didn't work when I bought the boat, but when I took the pump home and took it apart it then worked as if by magic. I suspect that the shaft had just become jammed.

 

[Parisianzee]

Thanks all! Lots to think about.

I am going to make cleaning the bilge a priority, therefore I'll remove the currently existing pump. Once that is done I'll figure out a replacement. I've noticed there are closed loop pumps available that do not need one of those clear plastic boxes. Just need to find some power in those wires.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Thanks all! Lots to think about.

I am going to make cleaning the bilge a priority, therefore I'll remove the currently existing pump. Once that is done I'll figure out a replacement. I've noticed there are closed loop pumps available that do not need one of those clear plastic boxes. Just need to find some power in those wires.

Do you have an automatic bilge pump as well as the shower pump? After cleaning your bilge (I recommend bilgex) I'd fit a bilge pump, preferably automatic.

 

[Parisianzee]

Do you have an automatic bilge pump as well as the shower pump? After cleaning your bilge (I recommend bilgex) I'd fit a bilge pump, preferably automatic.

No, just a shower pump in there; and yes I want to install a bilge pump. In fact I wonder if there are pumps that will do both (bilge & shower) with one single pump.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Wet and dry vac works wonders! A plastic one (mine came from Wilks) avoids rust problems.

 

[Norman_E]

No, just a shower pump in there; and yes I want to install a bilge pump. In fact I wonder if there are pumps that will do both (bilge & shower) with one single pump.

Even if you could rig one pump to do both jobs, it would be a bad idea. The bilge pump needs to work automatically whenever there is water in the bilge and not be dependant upon someone not forgetting to switch it back to bilge pump duty after using the shower, unless of course you just let the shower drain into the bilges? Bad idea all round.

 

[Parisianzee]

Even if you could rig one pump to do both jobs, it would be a bad idea. The bilge pump needs to work automatically whenever there is water in the bilge and not be dependant upon someone not forgetting to switch it back to bilge pump duty after using the shower, unless of course you just let the shower drain into the bilges? Bad idea all round.

Yeah makes sense! However space is tight down there and it seems like I only have one hose to connect to as an outlet hose. Maybe if I find a T connector or something.

 

[Denise]

Sump pump cleaning tips
I don’t own a boat, so I’m not much familiar with the sump pump bilge. 5 years back we had our sump pump installation. Recently we have noticed a bad smell from it. We called the professional plumbers for the cleaning and reinstallation. They asked us to lock all the system that drains to the pit and disconnect the power to the sump pump. They disconnected the pump motor and lift out the pit. They scoop out the debris and replaced it back. The smell was very bad and they cleaned it with a mask. So I know how difficult it would if you haven’t cleaned sump pump.
I read that the water present in the bilge pump contain oil and careless disposing of it to the water can cause pollution. You might know the issue faced by Dave. What I think is that simply pouring bilge cleaner or bleach and thinking that the bilge pump will do the rest is a bad idea. You should rinse it after the cleaning. Clean until the water coming from the pump is clean.

 

[PaulRainbow]

As it's only gunge from the shower i'd just use strong bleach to clean that part of the bilge.

Sounds like that part of the bilge does not drain into the main bilge, if that is the case i'd look into drilling limber holes so that it does. Paint or seal the holes with resin. You must have bilge pumps in the main bilge ?

As for pumping the shower out, the previously mentioned diaphragm pump is the answer, operated by a switch or button. Something like a Whale Gulper 220 would be a good choice.

The current installation will almost certainly have a switch and/or fuse, you need to trace the wiring back to source. You should also make yourself familiar with the locations for the fuses for all of the equipment onboard, write them all down.

 

[NickRobinson]

Have I missed a key point? Has the OP identified why there is oil residue in large quantities in the shower bilge?
As to checking the pump's health, can't the OP power it up from a 12v source on 'on the bench'?

 

[Parisianzee]

Have I missed a key point? Has the OP identified why there is oil residue in large quantities in the shower bilge?
As to checking the pump's health, can't the OP power it up from a 12v source on 'on the bench'?

Not yet. But after emptying it completely and running the boat for 10-15 hours after discovery, oil has not come back in there, nor has it leaked in the engine bilge. My speculation is that the previous owner must have discharged oil into the shower thinking it would go overboard.

As to checking the pump's health, can't the OP power it up from a 12v source on 'on the bench'?

Haven't had time yet. I still need to clean that shower sump/bilge area properly. Then I'll test the existing pump with a 12v source. Then either re-install or buy a new one depending on the result.

 

[NickRobinson]

Not yet. But after emptying it completely and running the boat for 10-15 hours after discovery, oil has not come back in there, nor has it leaked in the engine bilge. My speculation is that the previous owner must have discharged oil into the shower thinking it would go overboard.

I had a boat with a failed rear g/box seal. I knew and topped up all season. The engine bilge was horrible. Gear oil and a leaky stuffing box. On a lively passage it jumped the sill into the saloon bilge area and came up over the boards.... really 'orrible!

 

[Parisianzee]

I had a boat with a failed rear g/box seal. I knew and topped up all season. The engine bilge was horrible. Gear oil and a leaky stuffing box. On a lively passage it jumped the sill into the saloon bilge area and came up over the boards.... really 'orrible!

I can imagine!!

I found myself in a Force 6 the other day coming back from the IOW (hadn't seen it coming!) and jumped around all the way back to Hamble; checked the bilge and there was still nothing in there. Whatever has caused the oil to leak into there must have been fixed. I hope anyway!

 

[oldgit]

Recently puchased a boat which appeared to have never had the bilges cleaned ever in its entire life.
Depending on the particular compartment it was case of either water oil diesel or combination of all three.
In the aft bilge there was some gunge,which suspect if you put a bolt of lightning through it,would have created life,
Cleared all the limber holes from 25 years worth off old insulating tape and other crud.
Also discovered several long ago forgotton about absorbant pads.
Marinated everything in cheapo washing up liquid(a nice smelling one) and really hot water .
Agitated the whole messy mixture with a stiff brush and pumped out.
Engine room bilge had to be done twice to shift the pervading diesel pong.
Installed some LED strip lighting at both ends, drippy stern glands and water pumps/alternators/belts now easily inspected, day and more importantly at night.
Result nice well lit clean bilge so you do not get filthy when clambering about down inside plus you can actually inspect stuff at a glance noting any new weeps and leaks before they bite you

 

[Parisianzee]

Okay so I have looked into it a little bit more this weekend and really it's nothing but bad news:

To the question "Where does the oil come from?"

There's this tube thing at the aft-end of the mid-cabin bilge when said shower pump is. I believe the tube runs from there, under the fuel tanks, and into the engine bilge.

When I realised that the tube was there, I immediately checked my engine oil level again and surprise surprise, it was just above minimum safe level. The oil was topped up 20-30 engine hours ago and it has lost about a litre of oil. Topped that up, but concluded that the oil in the mid cabin bilge has effectively travelled from the engine bilge through that tube. And, of course, that my engine is leaking oil from somewhere (haven't figure out where yet but figure I can keep topping it up until the end of the season).

This of course opens up a plethora of other questions... Why is that tube there in the first place? And also it isn't only oil that makes it into the mid-cabin bilge. There's also another liquid in there which I desperately want to be sea water, but I believe might be fuel (though it doesn't smell like it, so maybe very diluted fuel).

At the moment I feel like I'm stuck. It's pointless cleaning the bilge unless I stop the oil leak. I won't stop the oil leak on my own. Therefore I think I'm just going to continue pumping out the most of it throughout the season, and get it sorted when it's out of the water over the winter.