Refit boat in USA or UK?

[john]

A friend and I have boat in California that needs work. We're uk based, and the boat will need to come back to the uk. Should we get the work done there and sail it back to the UK in the future, or have it transported back by ship and refit here. Does anyone have experience of boat yards and costs in California or of delivering a boat back to the uk from the west coast? Can do some research via Internet, but personal experience welcome! Thanks in advance John

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Would have thought it might be better to take the boat down the copast to Mexico where labour is much cheaper.

 

[Conachair]

Metric hardware might be a problem. If it's a US boat then will probably be imperial already.

 

[Morski]

Sorry, but I disagree with most recommendations.

1. Imperial..? Au contraire the US-system is called "standard"; remember, we do not have a king any longer.

2. Refit in Mexico...? ?Habla Espanol? On top of this only if you have no high/er end technical issues and you can look over the techs shoulder AT ALL TIMES. Parts can be a real headache in parts of Mexico. Inferior materials, be that fiberglass / gelcoat - repairs and particularly electronics. Engine, so - so. If you can live with improvisation, perhaps, but if you are looking for genuine parts for your Volvo (or whatever it may be), don't even think about it.

My suggestion:
Get everything on a higher technical level done in CA, negotiate, haggle and bargain, the economic situation in the US is on your side and the exchange rate puts buying power into your hands. Then (pending on your overall itinerary) go to Mexico an get new upholstery.

Fair Winds,
Peter

 

[Conachair]

1. Imperial..? Au contraire the US-system is called "standard"; remember, we do not have a king any longer.

Problem is that Europe and a sizable chunk of the world works on the metric system. So every nut and bolt from the US has a different thread, imperial hardware is usually available in the bigger centres. Caribbean you usually can get both. But it's a pita. Different spanner sizes, allen keys, taps & dies etc etc. If the boat is full of imperial them maybe keep it that way but in many places you might struggle to find nuts & bolts to fit.

 

[VO5]

A friend and I have boat in California that needs work. We're uk based, and the boat will need to come back to the uk. Should we get the work done there and sail it back to the UK in the future, or have it transported back by ship and refit here. Does anyone have experience of boat yards and costs in California or of delivering a boat back to the uk from the west coast? Can do some research via Internet, but personal experience welcome! Thanks in advance John

I am going to comment and I hope my comment will help you to decide.

I have a friend who freelanced along the Californian coast putting right jobs done by yards over there. Electrics, electronics, structural, glassfibre, engine, deck gear, etc.,

In seven seasons of this, my friend made enough money to buy a 58 ft hull, have it shipped to the US East Coast, to complete it, including, engine, electrics, electronics, deck gear, masts and spars, all the rigging, full suit of sails, heating, air con, watermaking, refridgeration, the workks!

In my experience, they have all the tools and all the mouth but somehow very few jobs are properly done.

some examples:~

New gas bottles fitted - connections not properly tightened = gas leaks.

Sacrificial Anode replaced - connections inboard painted over - result - no connectivity.

New seacocks fitted - jubilee clips not properly tightened - result - boat technically sinking on launch.

New VHF radio fitted - result - short circuit.

New electric bilge pump fitted - result - wiring incorrect - would not pump on automatic, only manual.

Boken windlass arbor - I stopped them when I saw their suggested procedure - did it myself.

and ditto for canvas work, sail repair, replacing impellors, adjusting drive belt etc.,

All this from a supposedly reputable yard who pride themselves on building quality yachts for silly money and Picnic boats costing upward of $600,000.

 

[ffiill]

Shipping-when I recently checked I was suprised how cheap transcontinental shipping is in the US.
If you ever wanted to get a boat to the Pacific and did not have the time to sail it thru the Panama Canal shipping would be no more expensive.
Suprising what you can ship by sea and again its not too expensive.
You can put the family car on the drive on ferry Southhampton to Auckland NZ for £1000 /mobile home for £2000-the Shipping Companies also do boats on trailers;on deck or on their own sail in ship based dry docks.
The drive on ferries are themselves quite spacious-seen a picture of a diesel locomotive being loaded on its low loader.

 

[TQA]

Hmm Mental picture of a boat requiring a refit. Got it!

Mental picture of the sail down from California to Panama Canal, then up to Florida then across the Atlantic. Got it!

Do we make the sail before or after a refit. Now that's a tough decision.

BTW Yes I am being ironic, Eg. please look up the story of the SV Triumph lost in the Atlantic this year.

OK I suppose if the work is purely cosmetic then it does not matter which end of the trip the work gets done but if a boat has been allowed to decay cosmetically is it wise to assume that it's other systems are in good order?

Oh yes don,t worry about access to metric fastners in the USA not a problem.

 

[Boathook]

Boat going to be based in the UK - refit in the UK. Would also save money on the VAT when importing? Metric fittings used, etc.

Keeping boat in USA - refit in USA (I know that you mention bringing the boat to the UK).

 

[VO5]

Boat going to be based in the UK - refit in the UK. Would also save money on the VAT when importing? Metric fittings used, etc.

Keeping boat in USA - refit in USA (I know that you mention bringing the boat to the UK).

I agree.

Then there is the problem of "lead time" when you give instructions while you are not physically there. One might think it is easy. Not So.

Another example:~

I wanted a Shaft Lok fitted. This is a clamp that is operated from the cockpit with a push - pull wire that locks the prop when sailing and unlocks it to use the engine.

Despite giving very clear requests for the shaft diameter measurement and the amount of room available between the floor of the engine room bilge and the underside of the shaft itself to pass on to the manufacturer waiting for this information before proceeding to supply the clamp, it took 57 emails and 10 months for it to get finally done. Women give birth to babies after a pregnancy lasting one month less !

You would think that in a modern country that sends men to the moon they would be able to measure the diameter of a shaft in millimeteres and if not, in thousands of an inch, only to convert to millimeteres by basic arithmetic.

Not so.

In the end I had to go and buy a micrometer and ship it out.

Only then did I get a result for the diameter.

The other measurement (the space between the floor and the shaft) took 5 weeks (tape measure job).

In subsequent contact with the manufacturer I was commended for my patience.

 

[john]

Great contributions so far...

Thanks to all who have contributed so far and lots of great advice and variables eg metric/standard we hadn't considered. Also the VAT implication. Just to clarfy, If we were to refit in the US, we would sail her back over a period of time. If we had the work done in the UK we would ship the boat back - I've been looking at the main boat transporters, tho' they are mainly East Coast - might have to trans ship from California. Latest variation is to put the boat on a large flatbed trailer and deliver her to a ro ro ferry from San Fran. 16 days to the UK I'm led to believe.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Sorry, but I disagree with most recommendations.

1. Imperial..? Au contraire the US-system is called "standard"; remember, we do not have a king any longer.

Fair Winds,
Peter

I hoped on first reading that your post was tongue in cheek. Re-reading it I am not so sure.

The rest of the world by and large uses metric. Of course we are all out of step with the USA - or is it the other way round?

UK used to use feet and inches etc, but we were dragged kicking and screaming into the metric system of the majority of the rest of the world a few years ago and lots of people (eg some builders) still use both.

I warrant that all serious work is done in metric in UK now.

Furthermore science is done in metric worldwide...

Did you know that the inch is defined (in standards) by the mm? One inch is BY DEFINITION 25.4mm

 

[chinita]

1. Imperial..? Au contraire the US-system is called "standard"; remember, we do not have a king any longer.

We don't have a King either. Nor do we have an Emperor - to which 'Imperial' refers.

We use Roman Numerals, from time to time, but are not Italian. French Letters are used by some but with no guarantee of any connections to Gaul and we are currently enjoying an Indian Summer - thousands of miles from the sub-continent.

 

[V1701]

Buy spares in the US as often significantly cheaper, e.g. Selden Furlex Halyard Swivel US $124, UK £273...

 

[Tranona]

Thanks to all who have contributed so far and lots of great advice and variables eg metric/standard we hadn't considered. Also the VAT implication. Just to clarfy, If we were to refit in the US, we would sail her back over a period of time. If we had the work done in the UK we would ship the boat back - I've been looking at the main boat transporters, tho' they are mainly East Coast - might have to trans ship from California. Latest variation is to put the boat on a large flatbed trailer and deliver her to a ro ro ferry from San Fran. 16 days to the UK I'm led to believe.

There are many more things to consider than just the best place for a refit. If it is a US made boat it will need to comply with the RCD if you are going to bring it into the EU. Unless it is a design that has been recently officially imported that is likely to be difficult and expensive. Whatever type of boat it is it will almost certainly be liable to VAT (and possibly duty) on import. All this applies whether you sail it back refitted or ship it back for the work to be done here.

There are some exemptions on VAT, primarily related to you being classified as a returning resident in which case the boat may be considered as personal chattels. If you are an EU resident there are no exemptions. (HMRC Notice No 8 spells out the rules on VAT).

No doubt you have now found out the cost of shipping and importing expenses and probably discovered that when you add to this the cost of meeting the RCD you are looking at a substantial sum before you pay VAT at 20% on customs valuation (or your purchase cost if that is recent). Unless the boat is very valuable these fixed costs will probably make the whole thing uneconomic.

Very few boats are brought from the US to the EU, despite the much lower value in the US as the cost and hassle is not worth it. There are, of course exceptions - for example boats built in the EEA do not usually have to meet the RCD, but it is important that you are absolutely sure of what you need to do before you commit to anything as importing without complying is a serious offence for which you will be personally liable.

 

[eagleswing]

us vs uk..

i have a nauticat-- which is all metric ---here in the usa. have never had a problem getting parts and every good hardware shop carries metric in whatever thread you want. the only parts issue i ever had was when i tried to get info re expanding the uk made hager electric busses ..and. received a quite. rude reply from. hager suggesting. that someone. who knew what. they. were. doing. would not. be asking. for. tech. advice.

that. being. said. there. are good. and. bad. yards. all over the. usa. tell me. where. the boat. is. located. and i.ll send. you links to the. local internet sailing. community. whre. you will. get. painfully. honest. info about. various installers. and. yards.

a. refit. in the. usa. will allow you a. beautiful sail thru the. caribbean, up the. east. coast. and. across. the. pond. you are probably loking at 10,000 $. usto. ship. across. to. an. easst. coast. port. that. buys a. lot. of. refitting...

eagleswing, wintering on the. hard. in the. great northern lakes...

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Sorry, but I disagree with most recommendations.

1. Imperial..? Au contraire the US-system is called "standard"; remember, we do not have a king any longer.

hah hah... Only called 'standard' in the US... The rest of the world still call it 'imperial' to remind them that it was standardised in the 19th century...

Its almost as funny as you having a baseball 'world' series....

Ps... It isnt a US system... I think you'll find that the brits invented it...

 

[VO5]

i have a nauticat-- which is all metric ---here in the usa. have never had a problem getting parts and every good hardware shop carries metric in whatever thread you want. the only parts issue i ever had was when i tried to get info re expanding the uk made hager electric busses ..and. received a quite. rude reply from. hager suggesting. that someone. who knew what. they. were. doing. would not. be asking. for. tech. advice.

that. being. said. there. are good. and. bad. yards. all over the. usa. tell me. where. the boat. is. located. and i.ll send. you links to the. local internet sailing. community. whre. you will. get. painfully. honest. info about. various installers. and. yards.

a. refit. in the. usa. will allow you a. beautiful sail thru the. caribbean, up the. east. coast. and. across. the. pond. you are probably loking at 10,000 $. usto. ship. across. to. an. easst. coast. port. that. buys a. lot. of. refitting...

eagleswing, wintering on the. hard. in the. great northern lakes...

What you really mean is that $10,000 buys you a lot of hardware.
The big problem is not the hardware, but the work needed and for it to be done properly.

 

[Silverhunter]

I would bring back to the UK as many things you want to do will be of the personal type and if in the States you will be too far away to monitor. Many companies in the UK are open to doing deals in this climate. I am based in the Solent and know Hayling Yacht Co Ltd do alot of large refits at very competative rates.

 

[Sailfree]

Interesting replies.

I have a metric French boat called a Jeanneau 43 deck saloon. Now where does the 43 come from!!

Now we all know that Raymarine, Garmin, Volvo, Yanmar manufacture 2 ranges of kit. They all employ a man in their factory taking out all the metric bolts and fitting AF sizes for stuff sold in the USA. I think not!!

When I worked in the states I bought Harken fitting , Leatherman knifes at a fraction of UK price (say $60 item was £74 in UK) was was even more annoying was items manufactured/originating in the UK!! I cannot comment about USA labour except in relation to construction work for that you needed a clear fully specified and designed scheme and they were very hardworking and good quality.