Refilling Gas Bottles

BigART

BigART

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Probably a hairy old topic but is there anywhere in the UK (preferably south coast) that can refill gas bottles? We have perchased a vessel which has a gas locker exactly sized to the Shell gas bottles she came with. Anything smaller would fit but would waste the stoarge capacity and Shell UK don't seem interested in gas anymore (well not small-ish boat bottles anyway, big white tanks on farms - no problem).

There is probably a new rule that says you can't do this in UK.

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Hello, pardon me for popping in... An American here, I am lurking in order to gain some "taste" of English cruising, as part of the very early steps of planning a cross Atlantic voyage. (Not before 2006 at present.)

Question: We use bottled gas here (Propane, LPG). It is customary for most marinas to have refill capability for the ships bottles. We merely carry the bottles up to the head of the pier and the harbormaster has a chap who fills them for us, and charges us the appropriate US$2.50/USGallon.

Do I take it that this is not common in the UK? If that's true, then how do you recharge your bottles, or do you use some sort of disposable units? Also, is this regional? Our intended cruising grounds are mostly the Irish Sea...is this an LPG-rich or LPG-poor area?

Much obliged! Thanks for letting me observe your life!

Chris McKesson
currently: Puget Sound, Washington (Pacific North West)

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Hi Chris and welcome. Nice to hear from someone who is going against the flow (most yachtsman leave Europe to escape the despicable weather!!) Re LPG, everything you want to know is on

http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/marine_gas/american_yachtsman.htm

but basically the UK uses Butane, not Propane, and 'filling' consists of taking the empty cyclinder to a retail outlet and exchanging it for an identical full one. Problem comes when your cylinder is not the same as the outlet's stock. When I'm in the UK I find it infuriating but probably it's 'commercial' justified by 'H&S grounds'.

You'll find most of your cruising questions answered on this forum by very enthusiastic forumites.

Good luck for 2006

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Stephen

Thanks for that. Is this Shell garage selling 'Shell' gas bottles or the usual Calor gas bottles? As I mentioned, the bottles in question are not a standard Calor size.

Angus

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Try 'flo-gas' - they have taken over Shell gas bottles - they still use the old shell sized bottles - do a google search for 'flo-gas' and you will find a stockist in your area.

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Hello Chris

Butane is normal both here and on the continent, but you can certainly get bottled propane in the UK. But probably not from the marina but from a specialist inland supplier.

Gas bottles are normally supplied on an exchange basis which means that you have to start off by buying the bottle itself and then exchanging an empty plus money for a full one. In the UK, Calor gas is the marine standard, but in much of the rest of Europe the Camping Gas bottle is used. Both brands are owned by the same French company, but are different sizes and not exchangeable for each other. However, Camping is freely available in the UK as well so its probably better if you are going to Europe to start with them.

Re- filling of your bottles is not readily available, if available at all. The safety rules in some countries are really strict (eg Spain) so casual re-filling at the marina is out.

Incidentally, what do you call propane since you call petrol gas ?

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UK/US gas problems

just a few additions to what tim has said-

propane is available in the UK but not on a basis of re-filling your own bottles. very few places will fill your bottles anywhere in mainland europe. also every country has its own incompatible bottles. the only common standard is Camping Gaz which is butane and the largest bottle is only about 2kg, it's also twice the prige of other suppliers.

unfortunately the threads on the propane bottle connection are very slightly different between US and UK bottles, the result is that a US connector can be screwed onto a UK bottle but not vice versa.

you could buy a bottle from Calor Gas on arrival and exchange it when empty but they will not buy it back when you leave, cost of the bottle is around USD30. i am almost certain your hose will fit the bottle directly. the 13kg calor bottle is about the same size as common US bottles.

it is possible to 'pour' liquid gas from one bottle to another. you need a high pressure hose with the appropriate adaptors. connect the two bottles, open the valves then invert the full one. on that basis it would be a good investment to bring a spare adaptor with you.

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The price per kg of LPG in the big bottles is several times cheaper than in the smallest bottles.....it would seem less dangerous to top up a small bottle from a big one than eg using petrol in cans as you are using a closed system. Anybody any experience of this.

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Thanks to all who posted about my USA question.

Here in the US we call the fuel "propane" to distinguish it from Gasoline. We are aware of Butane but most of us don't know the difference and don't worry about it, since the vendor only has Propane. A very few yachts use CNG, which is a very nice fuel but not widely available.

We use re-fillable bottles, which means that we can be comfortable with non-standard or otherwise special bottles (e.g. size, or material, etc.) On my boat the locker is small and takes 1-gallon bottles. These are a nuisance (only one week's cooking) and some fill places charge a service fee per bottle which has the effect of skyrocketing the per-gallon price if you buy only one gallon. To address this I have started filling the little bottles myself from a 5-gallon bottle which I have the marina fill.

The bottom line from that is that I am comfortable with the idea of filling my own bottles, and would use this as the means of getting around differences in thread pitch, etc.

On the other hand a new propane locker is on my "round tuit" list and I will certainly check specs to see if I can size it to fit EU, UK & US bottles.

A one-time loss of USD30 in order to cruise in the UK for a year or two doesn't seem at all painful, although these little things add up fast. And who knows, maybe one can on departure sell the bottle to a new arrival. I suspect I will be far more worried over VAT issues...but that's another thread!

Fair winds and warm regards to all.

Chris...somewhere between dreaming, planning, and doing...McKesson


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ON NO!!!!!!!!!!

<it would seem less dangerous to top up a small bottle from a big one >

had to issue a major warning here as that idea could have fatal consequences!

when filling a gas bottle it is absolutely vital to leave some space above the liquid. if the bottle is completely full, a rise in temperature can cause hydraulic pressure to burst the bottle.

when filling one bottle from another, the receiving bottle should be empty and at least as big as the filling bottle. you can make sure the bottle is not overfilled by weighing it.

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Hi Chris
We normally exchange empty bottles for full one - not cheap - about £10 for a small/med butane cylinder. You'll need to ask again about Propane (higher pressure than butane) becasuse it's not normal to use it on UK boats, though it is used for commmercial applications (e.g.outside heating lamps for restaurants).

Have a good visit!
Stephen

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