Reefing the main downwind

[Independence]

I don't tend to buy yachting comics but I was taking a sneaky peep at PBO / Yachting Monthly whilst in a shop and saw a favourable reference to an article on reefing downwind published the month before.

If anyone saw it can they describe the procedure?

 

[SteveSarabande]

The sail slides catch on mine when i try it, how is it possible to depower the main

 

[srm]

Havn't seen article but have done it on a classic 42ft sloop when running in a narrow channel in Norway without room to round up or turn onto a reach. Take boom weight on topping lift, ease halyard and pull leech down with brute force. Sail blows forward, drags on the shrouds and may trap a batten. Winch new clew out on boom and tension halyard. Don't recommend it as too much like hard work with risk of damage to sail. Would like to hear of a better way.

 

[Athene V30]

Take boom weight on topping lift .

Scandalous

Have done it in light airs when want to drop main without rounding up but dont fancy it in a blow.

 

[Talulah]

One of the advantages of inmast reefing. It's relatively easy to do downwind.
Just get the boom pointing into the wind and slowly ease the outhaul matched by an equal amount of winding the sail away.

 

[Steersman]

Weird. I was thinking about this last night when I couldn't get to sleep.

The thought occurred to me that you could perhaps haul the boom up with the topping lift until it was near vertical.

This would reduce the pressure in the sail so that you could then haul it down from the mast end.

Would it work?

Haven't a clue. Any thoughts anyone??

 

[Talulah]

Weird. I was thinking about this last night when I couldn't get to sleep.

The thought occurred to me that you could perhaps haul the boom up with the topping lift until it was near vertical.

This would reduce the pressure in the sail so that you could then haul it down from the mast end.

Would it work?

Haven't a clue. Any thoughts anyone??

Known as basterdising the sail.
However, some people would be prevented from doing so by the kicker arrangement.

 

[Pye_End]

I scanned the artical at the time, but can't find it now. Was it Feb YM?

I think that it said not to scandalise the main at all - ie keep it flat. I tend to take the weight of the boom with the topping lift only, and then haul on the luff then pull in the clew, with the kicker off only in the later stages. My sail has slugs and is fully battened. It is a bit stiff to reef in this manner but normally possible, and indeed preferable to luffing up.

 

[LittleSister]

Easy with junk rig!

 

[oldbilbo]

Bearing in mind the title of this sub-forum, and imagining the conditions in which hauling down/reefing the mainsail while constrained to running downwind becomes necessary, it should IMHO be considered prior to the need - as we're doing now. Might I suggest centralising the traveller and hauling in the mainsheet hard such that the sail is leach-on to the wind.... and thus as lightly-loaded as possible in the circumstances. Then a previously-fitted mainsail downhaul line, which is led back to the cockpit for preference, is used together with easing out on the halyard......

Once the sail is down sufficiently - perhaps all the way - then the appropriate reef-tack ring ( thingy? ) is secured at the boom gooseneck.... similar arrangements are made at the reef-clew..... and, when appropriate, the deep-reefed mainsail is rehoisted and trimmed.

 

[Danbury]

I seem to recall that the trick is to get some mainsheet on so as to pull the sail clear of the spreaders/shrouds... then, inch by inch ease the halyard and keep the reefing line tensioned... this should, in theory, allow you to pull the sail down at the luff, whilst keeping it off the spreaders/shrouds... The reefing line tension pulling the leech away and the slowly eased halyard not allowing it too much room to go anywhere.

 

[PacketRat]

ring ( thingy? )

:eagerness: Cringle?

 

[srm]

Might I suggest centralising the traveller and hauling in the mainsheet hard such that the sail is leach-on to the wind.... and thus as lightly-loaded as possible in the circumstances.

I would not try this on the monohulls I have owned; all have long keel pre IOR rule hulls. In the conditions we are discussing the mainsail would overpower the steering if badly oversheeted. Keeping the leech into the wind will make for a very unstable situation (directionally) with the danger of a wave or gust causing the main to fill creating a potential round up and partial knock down. I do use this method when gybing, controlling the main with sheet and two preventers and it can be quite entertaining singlehanded in a biggish sea at night. It may well be feasible on the catamarans I have owned, but on those I would fully drop the main as suggested rather than try to reef.

Danbury's method sounds the most promising for my boat. However, once the wind is abaft the beam I reef fhe main early to balance the sail plan for the wind vane self steering. The earlier incident in Norway occured many years ago when sailing with a keen charter crew.

 

[jesterchallenger]

I have a fully battened main with low friction Harken cars, which helps considerably. Previous boat had plastic sliders in a track and it was always a bit of a struggle to haul it down. I try to keep the main off the spreaders/shrouds as it comes down, so you need to sheet in enough to achieve this. If your boom is fully out, then the sail and/or battens will catch in something on the way down, never mind the friction. On a monohull, other than in a constrained channel, I'm not sure I can imagine a situation where you really would not be able to round up and dump the main - it might be wet and uncomfortable, but perfectly do-able. However, on a multihull, rounding up in big breeze with too much sail is not always a sensible option. Downwind in big winds, headsails are the more easy alternative. Forward planning always helps too, but I've yet to meet the person who hasn't been caught at least once or twice in their offshore sailing career....

 

[oldbilbo]

I would not try this on the monohulls I have owned

'srm' seems to refer boats and mainsails considerably larger than those of the sub-30' Jester types - his present boat is AFAIK all of 42'. Most monohulls around that size will have mainsails of about 400sq.ft. Most monos under 30' will have about half that area...... and therefore the physical problem is substantially different.

'Bearing in mind the title of this sub-forum....'

Let's hear from those who have wrestled with mainsails on Jester-sized boats.

 

[Pye_End]

Let's hear from those who have wrestled with mainsails on Jester-sized boats.

Post 8 is how I reefed in the Atlantic on JAC 2012.

Everyone's experiences and methods will be different, but I am very much an 'up at the mast' sailor. This is perhaps more intimidating in the middle of the ocean because of the psychological aspect, but the sea state, although large, is not the same as you get in the middle of the Thames Estuary with a wind against tide - the waves are longer, together with lots of wibbly wobbly stuff. I found this made it easier to predict the motion of the boat (and besides you get used to it), so going on deck to reef was not particularly dangerous. I had a triple clip strop on the harness with one fairly short, and an ideal seat (ie coachroof) on the port side of the last, and once there working was secure. I would echo post 13 - you want the boat to be under control what ever you do, so the sails need to be in balance to allow the self steering to work - head to wind is not possible as there is no engine help, and no need for one. When running with a fresh wind you had fairly large rollers behind, and this leads to pitching, thus every wave some of the load being taken off the luff of the main somewhat, and that is your time to pull down the luff to the next cringle. I tended to reef early as I didn't want to abandon in mid ocean having broken something that I could not fix, so main loads were a bit lighter than I would in a coastal environment. I also reefed the main regularly when hove to - ie with some load on the main, even during the more livelier times (now that brings back memories!).

I would recommend putting handles on any sprayhood. The trip up to the mast always felt the most exposed part of the experience.

 

[alant]

Known as basterdising the sail.
However, some people would be prevented from doing so by the kicker arrangement.

No it isn't, its called 'scandalising' a sail.

https://www.google.co.uk/images?q=s..._group&ei=YhsTU-W8I8uQhQfCxYCQBg&ved=0CEoQsAQ

 

[sailorman]

No it isn't, its called 'scandalising' a sail.

https://www.google.co.uk/images?q=s..._group&ei=YhsTU-W8I8uQhQfCxYCQBg&ved=0CEoQsAQ

see #4

 

[srm]

'srm' seems to refer boats and mainsails considerably larger than those of the sub-30' Jester types - his present boat is AFAIK all of 42'. Most monohulls around that size will have mainsails of about 400sq.ft. Most monos under 30' will have about half that area...... and therefore the physical problem is substantially different.

Let's hear from those who have wrestled with mainsails on Jester-sized boats.

Fair comment, my current boat is 35ft with bowsprit.

However, my reservations about directional stability while reefing a centred mainsail in a seaway apply equally to the Trintella 29 I used to sail. The proportions between hull shape, rudder area, and sail area were much the same on all the monohulls I have owned.

 

[Poignard]

I don't have Eric Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail" here to check but, as far as I can recall, one of the reasons (or maybe the reason) he would not have battens in his mainsail was so that they would not get snagged on the shrouds when reefing off the wind.

Last time I bought a mainsail I seriously considered ordering one without battens (and hence no roach). I asked the sailmaker's advice but he dissuaded me from doing so, saying the loss of mainsail area in a boat with a small main and a large genoa would badly affect her performance; and leech flutter would be a problem.

However, thinking about it later, I realised there are many yachts about with in-mast reefing that obviously can't have horizontal battens and so must have a straight leech. In fact I crewed on one crossing the Atlantic not long after. Leech flutter wasn't a problem. Without a similar yacht having roach and battens as a comparator it was impossible to say whether her performance suffered but being able to reef downwind was very convenient.