Reefing set-up

[KAL]

OK. If you had slab reefing and you wanted to change to in-mast or in-boom, which one would you go for, or would you leave well alone?

I want to be able to reef from the cockpit if necessary, but peoples' experiences of single-line systems don't inspire confidence due to tales of huge friction and the number of extra deck blocks and clutches needed.

This is not for this season BTW; just forward planning.

Any thoughts?

 

[Tranona]

In boom as In mast needs a new mast. However, neither are usually economic as they need both new spars and sails. Better to. Spend the money improving your existing reefing arrangements. There are, of course advantages to in mast or boom but mainly to do with ease of handling rather than performance.

 

[Poignard]

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are that I would not get rid of a simple, almost foolproof system to install something more complicated and expensive unless there was a good reason.

Why do you want to do it?

 

[oldvarnish]

You can, of course, have two line reefing led back to the cockpit if you are wary of single line.

I'm fairly new to single line and didn't really trust it, but it has yet to let me down. Others may differ.

 

[KellysEye]

Having had an in mast furler fail on a 52 foot boat in Antigua Sailing Week I wouldn't buy one. I've only seen in boom furling on mega yachts but don't know if it is available for smaller yachts.

>My thoughts are that I would not get rid of a simple, almost foolproof system to install something more complicated and expensive unless there was a good reason.

Agree.

 

[mjcoon]

You can, of course, have two line reefing led back to the cockpit if you are wary of single line.

Some consider that to be better because of the friction being shared out over more lines, and having more control over tension. But then there are more lines to lead back, provide clutches for, and remember (or mark) which is which...

Also, do you like to have three reefs available? Some think two is parsimonious, but it depends on what conditions you may find yourself sailing in... If the sail has a third set of reefing cringles it might be possible to re-reeve the first-reef lines as a third while the second reef is in use; but who wants to be doing that in the sort of conditions that would require it!

Mike.

 

[bitbaltic]

We have 2 single line reefs and a third slab (30 ft boat with a fairly big rig). for the past two seasons the friction in the single line system had us tearing our hair out. This season, howevber, we had a rigger look at it and:

1) changed all the old 8mm reefing lines for 6mm dyneema;
2) changed out the 12mm main halyard for 8mm dyneema;
3) removed the blocks inside the boom which were there to add purchase- but had in fact allowed the old reef lines to twist around each other causing huge friction;
4) set up the deck tidy's correctly so all the lines at the mast foot present properly (no right angles);
5) perhaps most importantly, installed a teflon mainsail track.

Now she reef so slickly on single line that you can't believe it is the same boat. Just open the clutches and all three reef lines run effortlessly when hoisting the halyard and reefs can be knocked in or out on the wind at will. I was sceptical that good single line could be achieved but it definitely can be done, and we are really pleased with it- it has completely revitalised our sailing this season.

Cheers

 

[blackbeard]

Just to add +1 to what's already been said:
If single line reefing doesn't work for you, find out why; friction is your enemy but it can be defeated.
If you already have one system set up, don't scrap it unless you really need to.

While we are at it; if you want to go in-mast you will need to budget for a new sail a well as the reefing mechanism.

My own experience of in-mast was dire but I might have been unlucky. The single-line reefing on my own boat works well and is quick and easy.

 

[oldvarnish]

I replaced all my single reefing lines with thinner dyneema and it made a huge difference.

Our third reef (essential) is two line reefing. For some reason I can 't quite figure, the boom is too short to allow for a sinle line third reef.

 

[Norman_E]

3) removed the blocks inside the boom which were there to add purchase- but had in fact allowed the old reef lines to twist around each other causing huge friction;

I have single line reefing for the first reef and twin line for the deep second reef on a 45 footer. The single line reef works with back to back blocks travelling inside the boom because I have fitted a short piece of wood between the blocks. The wood is firmly fitted between the two blocks secured by the clevis pin that joins the blocks together, and is longer than the width of the boom. Because of it the reef lines cannot twist round each other because the blocks are held more or less upright and cannot fall over. The wood is a strip of Iroko about 50mm x 10mm, and about 150mm long.

 

[jimi]

My first 2 reefs are single line, the third is double line as well. I don't usually rig the third reef unless on a longer trip but use the luff line for the third reef as a cunningham. I don't really need the 3rd reef until top end 7.

 

[Javelin]

Leave in boom and in mast reefing well alone.
In ideal conditions they work well but when you really need it to work when its nasty the apparent convenience can quickly turn to actual nightmare.

I'm a big advocate of using very small dia dyneema for parts of the single line system that you don't actually handle.
Its a simple process to taper the lines up to 8mm for your hands or the winch.

Watching Skip Novac's video on sails and reefing is well worth it
http://www.yachtingworld.com/specials/535846/skip-novak-storm-sailing-part-5-reefing

 

[KAL]

You can, of course, have two line reefing led back to the cockpit if you are wary of single line.

I'm fairly new to single line and didn't really trust it, but it has yet to let me down. Others may differ.

The problem with single line is that I've been told I'll need a new boom to accept it.

I always have the 3rd reef rigged.

How do you rig a double-line setup? I think that would be the easiest/most cost-effective conversion for our boat. Guess it would need some more blocks at the foot of the mast, a few more deck tidy blocks double-decked onto the existing and (the expensive bit) more clutches in the cockpit?

Is the small dyneema line harder to handle?

Also, the cockpit end of our boom has the usual three pulley blocks mounted vertically, but there are also two others on either side of the end, mounted horizontally, although there are only 3 clutches in the mast end. Any idea?

 

[bitbaltic]

Is the small dyneema line harder to handle?

We expected it to be, but it isn't particularly- however our system is now near frictionless. If you have any residual friction then heaving on the thinner lines will definitely be harder.

Out of interest, if (as it sounds) you have an otherwise conventional boom with pennants running up from the mast foot to the gooseneck end, through the boom and up to the leech of the sail, why have you been told you need a new boom for single line? is it configured such that the lines can't run onto the gooseneck end blocks from above?

 

[KAL]

It's a conventional boom. The pennants terminate just below the gooseneck where there is a winch for winding them tight. However, we have a bit of a half and half setup, whee the topping lift and the main halyard are operated from the cockpit, while the pennants are operated at the mast. It therefore takes three people to reef (if we don't switch on the autohelm); one to helm, one to let off/raise the main in the cockpit, and one at the mast doing the reefing pennants. Bit of a pain, but the reefing is otherwise effective.

 

[charles_reed]

I've got 4 reefs, the 1st two are single-line, the last 2 slab reefs with conventional rams-horn and leech line. I use 8mm dyneema for all of them.
I've single-handed for the last 24 years.

I would treat with considerable suspicion the horror stories about single-line reefing - invariably due to botched designs. I would also treat with derision the "expert advice" that you'd need a new boom.
If you look on the Harken US site you'll see how you can put 2 single-line reefs on your current boom.

There are disadvantages, 1. you need a number of blocks, all of which need to be high-quality ball-race design - each line will need 1 on the leech of the sail, 2 cheek blocks on the boom, one on the mast and, being sensible, one at the mast-foot and tidies back to the cockpit. 2. you are limited, by the immense length of string which arrives in the cockpit, x8 as much as the depth of the reef. 3. you have to use some craft to get the correct tension on leech, luff and vang.
The benefits are immense - 1. it takes about 28" for me to put in the first reef, and that is with a fully battened main. 2. You retain the facility to use mast-bend to flatten your sail, 3. Weight aloft is minimised. 4. You are able to have considerably more leech than with in-mast furling 5. you can have far greater drive with a fully-battened sail. 6. it costs 5-10% of the outlay required for the two other solutions you're considering.
The only one, IMHO, to have any benefits is in-mast reefing - it avoids having to lift and drop the main.

PS Before we get onto boom roller reefing, just think about why it's been shelved since its heyday in the late 60s/early 70s.

 

[Tintin]

......
If you look on the Harken US site you'll see how you can put 2 single-line reefs on your current boom.

.....

This ?

http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5324&taxid=1562

 

[vyv_cox]

Completely agree with Charles. I first installed my own balance block single line reefing in a Kemp boom in about 1990 and have used the same design ever since, now in a second boat with the same boom make. We have reefed countless times and never once had a problem. I changed from the original 12 mm braid-on-braid polyester to 10 mm Dyneema, which reduced friction considerably. My original balance blocks were simply two small blocks tied together, but commercial ones had become available by the time I did my second.

Some more info and a diagram at http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Singlelinereefing.aspx This is the system that was later patented by Z-Spars, forcing Selden to develop their cumbersome system.

 

[Stemar]

Genuine question: What's the advantage of the balance block over a simple line? I can only see that two extra blocks is more friction that a simple line would avoid.

 

[JumbleDuck]

This is the system that was later patented by Z-Spars, forcing Selden to develop their cumbersome system.

"Later"? What happened to prior art?