Reefing and tidying up the bunt

[matt1]

My mainsail doesn't have any reef points between the luff and leach cringles. It was almost certainly envisaged from the outset that it would be married to a stack pack, however for offshore sailing I want to be able to roll down the stack pack and lose the extra windage / chafe etc . How would I tidy away the bunt if heavily reefed without any reef points?

 

[Poignard]

Without reef points, or eyelets to pass a lacing through, I can't see how it would be possible.

 

[capnsensible]

I always thought that part of the fun of sailing was getting chucked around on the coach roof putting sail ties in the reefing cringles in bumpy seas and pouring rain.....

When I had commercial yachts however and mainsails were a more frequent buy than when cruising, I found a good sailmaker and took his advice. Sail ties in reef points will chafe your sails and I can sell you more! Don't use them! I took that advice.

Bit drifty but his other top tip was regarding had sail sun strips. Short lived in sunny places. He said unpick and remove the old one yourself. My labour will add a lot to the cost of replacement. Did that too.

 

[Poignard]

I have a book somewhere that shows reef points that don't have eyelets in the sail. Instead they are sewn onto either side of the sail and the 3 strands of the end attached to the sail are unpicked to form a clover leaf pattern. The free ends are tapered and whipped because tapered ends cause less chafe.

All very tiddly.

 

[mjcoon]

One can imagine some cobbled-together mechanism like an overgrown fold-back paperclip or a magnetic clamp. But any such devices would be unattached and thus a liability especially in reefing conditions. I think having cringles fixed is the only possible solution. If the sail is low-tech and/or cheap and small maybe it could be DIY...

 

[johnalison]

One can imagine some cobbled-together mechanism like an overgrown fold-back paperclip or a magnetic clamp. But any such devices would be unattached and thus a liability especially in reefing conditions. I think having cringles fixed is the only possible solution. If the sail is low-tech and/or cheap and small maybe it could be DIY...

I think that my sail has a seam or is reinforced at the level of the reefs and cringles. It would be a mistake just to insert cringles into a single layer of cloth, I would imagine.

 

[matt1]

These are Elvstrom laminate sails. They have the reinforcement strip across where the reef would be, just no eyelets. Was spec'd as part of a new boat order and came with a stackpack so maybe they just consider them superfluous with that set up. I just wanted to check I hadn't missed anything obvious before I get some eyelets added. Thx

 

[DJE]

We've got eyelets but never use them. The reefed part of the sail stays fairly neat and close to the boom on its own. At 2nd reef we usually put a sail tie round the boom and through the leech cringle to tidy up the outer end of the reef and improve visibility under the boom.

 

[mjcoon]

I think that my sail has a seam or is reinforced at the level of the reefs and cringles. It would be a mistake just to insert cringles into a single layer of cloth, I would imagine.

Agreed. It would be good to reinforce with, at the least, some sail repair tape. And then have the challenge of making a neat hole through the lot! I am sure I have read that the cringles, other than the luff and leach, should not be tied down so tight that they take an appreciable amount of tension but merely to retain the bunt.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I'm with @capnsensible and @DJE - you don't need them. a) The sail hangs fine without them. b) They're usually done up too tight and may actually damage the sail, and c) I saw one left tied when the rest of the sail was released. Messy.

 

[GHA]

, however for offshore sailing I want to be able to roll down the stack pack and lose the extra windage / chafe etc .

It can actually be quite handy having a bunt of sail at the boom offshore, with a reef in it's handy for catching water with a bucket under the gooseneck.
I've never bothered tying up the bunt on ocean passages, sail is fine.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

When heavily reefed use the stack pack. windage will be the same or less than the bunt. When on full tie the lazy jacks to the mast if you must. I notice all the Vendee Globe sailors are using stack packs.

 

[DJE]

We've got eyelets but never use them. The reefed part of the sail stays fairly neat and close to the boom on its own. At 2nd reef we usually put a sail tie round the boom and through the leech cringle to tidy up the outer end of the reef and improve visibility under the boom.

I should add that we have lazy jacks but no stack pack.

 

[dunedin]

I'm with @capnsensible and @DJE - you don't need them. a) The sail hangs fine without them. b) They're usually done up too tight and may actually damage the sail, and c) I saw one left tied when the rest of the sail was released. Messy.

Agree. Was reading recently a very experienced offshore sailer (poss Pete Goss) also recommending not using them - having seen a sail ripped into vertical shreds by the reefing ties. He suggested adding a cringle midway between the reefs, not for a rope but to allow water to drain out.

 

[KompetentKrew]

a very experienced offshore sailer … also recommending not using them - having seen a sail ripped into vertical shreds by the reefing ties.

Doesn't this indicate the reefing lines are improperly tied or tightened?

(Don't ask me how I discovered this)

 

[Stemar]

If you don't like the stakpak, how about a Dutchman system?

 

[dunedin]

Doesn't this indicate the reefing lines are improperly tied or tightened?

(Don't ask me how I discovered this)

His point was reef points do little good and often can cause a lot of harm

 

[ibbo]

There's a lot of sail flapping when you're on reef 3.

 

[Poignard]

There's a lot of sail flapping when you're on reef 3.

Yes, and it could hold many gallons of water at 8.6lbs/gallon if a big one comes over; which could delay the yacht righting herself after a knockdown, and might damage the sail and ruin its shape.

I'll stick to tieing in my reef points and try to remember to untie them before shaking out a reef.

 

[TonyMS]

On our cat, I've arranged for the statpack hoist to go over a pulley under the spreaders, down to the foot of the mast, and then aft to a clam cleat on the coachroof. So, we can lower and hoist the statpack as we sail along. We also have a set of "anti-lazyjacks" that run from where the lazyjacks are attached to the statpack, along the boom and back aft along the coachroof, so that we can pull the lowered statpack tight to the boom.

Allows us to keep everything tidy and avoid chafe, at the cost of rather a lot of string.

TonyMS