Red Rain - Red Sails

[sundance]

Here in Med. France we had some serious 'red rain' a few weeks ago and it has left our one year old sparkling white sails in a sorry state, with reddish brown streaks all over them. The roller furled jib got it the worst. We have managed to wash off some of it with water and a mild detergent. but much unsightly staining still persists. Has anyone got any ideas on how to get the sails back to their former glory. The sails are made of Dacron.

Any sound advice much appreciated.

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[Talbot]

Most sail makers will offer an option of a sail wash when they are given the sails for a check over. I dont recommend doing it very often, but serious red streaks would appear to be a reasonable reason /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[Oldhand]

May be over optimistic but perhaps sunlight will bleach the stains considerably?

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[John_Clarke]

Oxalic acid might work

I believe the brown / red pigments in soil can be due to iron. Oxalic acid is good at removing rust stains from GRP. I would try it on a small patch for 20 minutes to see if it works. It would need to be wash off afterwards.

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[yottitotti]

I suspect the red staining, rather than being at a molecular level, will in fact be particulate in the form of minute grains of dust (blown in from the Sahara desert), trapped within the fibres and weave of the sail fabric.
As strictly speaking the fabric itself has not been couloured the only option is to try to simply wash out the particles, which i think will prove to be difficult.

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[alan]

We get the same thing here in Italy, typically 2 or 3 times a year. It's best if you can wash it of immediately - too late for that now though. I agree with the earler reply that said it is sand particles in the weave of the cloth - that is what it look likes to me.
Try washing the sails two or three times with water or a very very mild detergent - I usually do this with the sails in place and then gradually raise them washing and rinsing as you haul them up about a metre at a time (two people, one each side makes it faster and also gives you something to push against!). You can get pretty wet doing this, so chose a nice sunny day ............ if we ever get one this year!!
I have not tried oxalic acid yet but did buy some crystals the other day from the local ironmongers, and may give it a go on some of the more serious stains - but if the actual cloth is not stained then I am not too hopeful.
Good luck and I'd like to know if you discover a method of getting rid of the "stains".

Alan.
Nettuno, Italy.

<hr width=100% size=1>Alan Cloke

 

[tcm]

As some say below, the reddness in the rain is minute sand particles, often quoted to be from the sahara although lots of other rocky places like corsica and even parts of the Esterel are the same colour.

Anyway, no matter what the source, the recent rain (bout 6-8 weeks ago now) was the heaviest for dozens of years when an estimted 50mg per sq metre of red sand fell on southern france.

The secret with red sand is to wash the stuff off immediately - whilst the stuff is still wet, even whilse it is still raining. This avoids it turning to concrete when it lands, but you do look a bit of an arse cleaning a boat in the rain. But you only need to rinse with a hose and it's all clean.

but for absent brit boatowners that is often not an option. Acid won't do much, and neither will the sunshine. The sand has to be physically taken off, so there's no obvious chemical option really, it has to be washed out somehow.

On some boat parts i have had reasoanable results with a high pressure jet, though one wd have to be careful as these can rip wood apart and certainly rip holes in grp.

A large soft fine brush, and loads of water seems to be the safest way to go. On the extendable Surehold type, you can get new heads for these in blue (which is heavy duty and ok to use with solvents/gasoline etc) or yellow which is polystyrene and def not ok with solvents but is finer bristles and can dig out the sand. I wd take the sail down or even take it off, and prat about with it on deck doing a bit at a time, but you may need a big deck. I wd also have a gentle go with a jetwash, altho water pressure is decent down there so an ordinary hose would be good enough, together with that brush in both directions of the weft/weave. Washup liquid or teepol worked ok, but needs patience. Its is not like washing up pots when the cleaning is done in one swipe - you are floating out the sand a bit at a time, with the detergent really just lubricating/floting the sand particles.

One additional option would be (esp in early season) in settled weather wd be to leave the sail out from late afternoon and then all night, which should get it nice and damp with lots of condensation, which again will start teh process of wetting/floating the sand ready for a clean in the morning. You will see some crew on big boats cleaning windows first thing in the morning using this condensate.

Incidentally, on the pvc covers, which also took a load of red sand together with black gunky stuff in the atmosphere, i had fabulous results with er petrol. This instantly dissolves the black gunk in one swipe, and then if you quickly apply a large squirt of detergent the whole solution can be rinsed off. This can't be done in sunshine and can only be done in 2sqm areas otherwise the petrol dries, so it's an early morning job. People freak at the idea of petrol, but lots of solvents and cleaners are just as combustioble, perhaps even more so. Of course, one would have to try a small area first on whatever materil you were cleaning, and since the petrol is a solvent, you need to use the blue brushes or at least, not the yellow ones, or be prepared to buy a new yellow one when it turns into mush after about two hours and sets rock hard by the next morning.

The going rate for young muscle (dayworkers) who are in plentifull supply in early spring is 80- 100 euros a day and recommended for this rather tough job.

final option is of course not to worry about it. It's only you that is annoyed by the red stains, really.









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