Red Diesel threat

T

tico

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
3,278
Location
Worcestershire/Pembrokeshire
Visit site
A joint initiative from the Treasury and DEFRA has resulted in a discussion document aimed at reducing/eliminating the use of red diesel for Non-Road Mobile Machinery, now out for evidence gathering with responses due by 24th July.
Within the document it is noted that red diesel is used by fishing vessels (although these are specifically exempted from the consultation) but also by private vessels where exemption is granted on the non-motive power element used to generate electricity - no mention of the heating portion.

Reading between the lines it appears to be a move to restrict the use of rebated red diesel to only a few specific applications which would not include pleasure boating.

Nothing as yet from the RYA.
 
tico said:
A joint initiative from the Treasury and DEFRA has resulted in a discussion document aimed at reducing/eliminating the use of red diesel for Non-Road Mobile Machinery, now out for evidence gathering with responses due by 24th July.
Within the document it is noted that red diesel is used by fishing vessels (although these are specifically exempted from the consultation) but also by private vessels where exemption is granted on the non-motive power element used to generate electricity - no mention of the heating portion.

Reading between the lines it appears to be a move to restrict the use of rebated red diesel to only a few specific applications which would not include pleasure boating.

Nothing as yet from the RYA.
Click to expand...
This takes us back to "how many pumps to serve the needs?" If fishermen can still use red, then a white pump will be needed as well. The issue hasn't changed. I guess this is DEFRA being "seen" to be looking into the issue.
 
A couple of places I visit probably sell the great majority of fuel to commercial boats .
The cost of putting in extra pumps and tanks would be high . A change to mandatory white diesel would certainly have an impact on motor boating and might well rule out some destinations if refuelling becomes impossible.
 
That will still take years for the whole rail network to be fully electrified.
Also the staining of red diesel in the tanks doesn't immediately dissappear.
 
I find this hard to believe. The argument for retaining red diesel for UK pleasure craft hasnt changed in that the cost of installing extra pumps for white diesel would damage the UK boating industry. And its not even as if the UK will have to fight its case on this issue with the EU in the long run. To me this sounds like a periodic review that will reach the same conclusion as its always reached. Of course the Treasury wants rid of red diesel because it is a duty fraud risk but it has been for decades so why would the Treasury dig its heels in now?
 
Technology will overtake these issues eventually. All fuel will be taxed at source or point of sale and anyone entitled to a rebate will apply online and get credited online. The idea of physically dyeing fuel and then dipping tanks will go the way of the dog license.
 
Biggles Wader said:
Technology will overtake these issues eventually. All fuel will be taxed at source or point of sale and anyone entitled to a rebate will apply online and get credited online. The idea of physically dyeing fuel and then dipping tanks will go the way of the dog license.
Click to expand...
I have a card for BWML which is to identify me and make an automated duty declaration when using an automated fuel pump. Therefore the technology exists. However the fuel cannot be white as people could remove it from the boat tank and use it in a road vehicle.
People dishonestly filling up at 100 % domestic rate every time are to blame for any change leading to higher duty for all boats.
 
Deleted User said:
I find this hard to believe. The argument for retaining red diesel for UK pleasure craft hasnt changed in that the cost of installing extra pumps for white diesel would damage the UK boating industry. And its not even as if the UK will have to fight its case on this issue with the EU in the long run. To me this sounds like a periodic review that will reach the same conclusion as its always reached. Of course the Treasury wants rid of red diesel because it is a duty fraud risk but it has been for decades so why would the Treasury dig its heels in now?
Click to expand...

I am not sure that I share your optimism Mike. This isn’t entirely unexpected in my view - it seems a natural consequence of the direction of travel by Government. Their rhetoric about the use of diesel and the growing influence of environmental issues on policy indicates that this may be something more and that tricky isssues such as the cost of extra infrastructure may be tackled. The fact that Defra are involved indicates that it is more than a tax issue and in Mr Gove they have a ‘big hitter’ in political terms and he clearly wants to make his mark in his current Ministerial role.

I may be wrong of course and would be very happy to be so! :)
 
Greg2 said:
I am not sure that I share your optimism Mike. This isn’t entirely unexpected in my view - it seems a natural consequence of the direction of travel by Government. Their rhetoric about the use of diesel and the growing influence of environmental issues on policy indicates that this may be something more and that tricky isssues such as the cost of extra infrastructure may be tackled. The fact that Defra are involved indicates that it is more than a tax issue and in Mr Gove they have a ‘big hitter’ in political terms and he clearly wants to make his mark in his current Ministerial role.

I may be wrong of course and would be very happy to be so! :)
Click to expand...

The RYA did an effective job of resisting the EU challenge to the UK red diesel position so I'm sure they will be on the case again if there is another threat. However, I think you are right in that in the long run, environmental considerations will make it increasingly costly and socially unacceptable for motorboats to zoom around guzzling fuel at less than 1nmpg but in the short term, I hope that someone in govt understands that damaging the UK boating industry is not a great idea in our current economic situation
 
tico said:
Thanks Deleted User... thats what I was getting at. The contribution to the economy by the UK boating industry seems to be disregarded.
Click to expand...
Are there any figures that support that statement? I'd be particularly interested in the amount at UK based boaters contributed as a percentage of gross domestic product and excluding exports.
 
Sandy said:
Are there any figures that support that statement? I'd be particularly interested in the amount at UK based boaters contributed as a percentage of gross domestic product and excluding exports.
Click to expand...

You cannot separate those issues. A strong home market provides a solid financial base for UK manufacturers to expand their exports. Here is a RYA report on the size of the UK leisure marine industry http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/uk-leisure-marine-industry-grows-for-fifth-consecutive-year.aspx. Note that 29% of revenues are accounted for by exports which makes the UK leisure marine industry one of the few manufacturing export success stories we've got and a significant chunk of those exports are made by manufacturers of gas guzzling motorboats. Then there is the wider issue of continuing participation in leisure boating. If the govt makes it more difficult and costly for leisure boaters to obtain fuel, then that damages the long term viability of the industry. Not only that but if the govt damages the viability of the UK leisure marine industry then it damages its ability to develop alternative more environmentally friendly propulsion systems in the future. As I say, the UK leisure marine industry is one of the few industrial success stories we've got so the UK govt should tread very carefully before making it more difficult for the industry to make money
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top