Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Apologies if this has been posted before - I've just spotted it...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22719811
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22719811
Red diesel - the case remains open
- Thread starter Twister_Ken
- Start date
dunedin
Well-Known Member
IMHO we should pay exactly the same duty on boat fuel as road fuel
sailorman
Well-Known Member
boats dont use roads & UK duty fuel is far more expensive that the rest of the EU, we are charged Duty & VAT
LittleShip
Well-Known Member
Gus Lewis, its legal and government affairs manager, said: "Our position remains unchanged, in that it is legitimate for UK boaters to use duty-paid red diesel." But what is the duty on Red is it 5%
Here endeth the first lesson.
Tom
Here endeth the first lesson.
Tom
[70521]
Well-Known Member
You have that choice; just fill up at the local garage.
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
We're interested to know why exactly?
flaming
Well-Known Member
Oil is a finite resource, and successive governments have declared their desire to reduce its use on the roads with punitive tax. You can disagree with that, but that's the current situation. And it's easy to see where that has lead the car industry in terms of fuel economy.
It does then seem odd that one specific leisure use of fuel be eligible for significantly reduced fuel. Especially when the amounts used per individual are very high, especially in the cases of large motor boats.
This is, in my opinion, a separate debate to that of access to fuel in remote parts where yachts make up only a small proportion of the custom, and issues surrounding fuel composition differences. In my opinion the EU are being difficult in not allowing red to be used - even if full duty is paid - by leisure users, but the fact remains that in the context of a finite supply it is odd for a small subset of, predominantly well off, people to claim a lower fuel price for their leisure activity.
chewi
Well-Known Member
Well I can, because I use a measly amount and I can put a can in my boot, but it would be something of a safety issue ,not the least impractical for motorboat owners to ferry many cans of diesel from the garage to their boat by car and tender.
Marsupial
Well-Known Member
Oil is a finite resource
sorry Flamming but the jury is out on this
sorry Flamming but the jury is out on this
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Duty from 23.3.11 is 11.14p per litre, so about 16% (of price at 67p)
flaming
Well-Known Member
Maybe - but that is not the situation as it is being administered by the government, and any likely successor. If you expect motorists to pay large amounts of tax on fuel to limit use (and again, you can argue whether it is necessary, but it is the current situation) then it just seems perverse that leisure use, in the form of boats, is not treated the same.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Not at all. Of course it's finite. The jury is out on when it might run out, not if.
Babylon
Well-Known Member
No Ken, Marsupial is right.
When all 10 Billion of the people on this planet and all their successors are long-since dead, plus all domestic beasts and a few bees, and the shattering effects of geological time has played out once again, there might be more oil!
In the meantime, let's organise a Scuttlebut meet to frack for oil under Marsupial's house...!
RAI
Well-Known Member
It's not really about the tax, it's about the colour. Red = low duty, White = full duty. I suspect if the UK allowed boaters to reclaim some of the tax on white diesel, Brussels would not object. They object to the UK misusing the purpose of the red dye.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
I see thousands of cans taken out to the motorboats on the river where I am moored.
chewi
Well-Known Member
There are legal and forecourt limits to how much can be carried in a can in a vehicle at the pump, and practical limits to what can be carried.
I don't deny it is feasible for some, as I said in my post , but it is not for all, it depends on how much diesel and what sort of access there is.
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
It all depends on what you think the tax is for together with the extension into leisure boating.
Is it to stop MMGW?
Is it to conserve scarce resources?
Is it to pay for roads (in the case of road fuel)
Is it that everything should be taxed
Is it that rich yotties should be taxed more
Is it to pay for schools and the health service
Is it to increase politicians power
Is it to stop MMGW?
Is it to conserve scarce resources?
Is it to pay for roads (in the case of road fuel)
Is it that everything should be taxed
Is it that rich yotties should be taxed more
Is it to pay for schools and the health service
Is it to increase politicians power
flaming
Well-Known Member
The argument that the government has put forward recently for the increase in road duty is the first 2, adding in fuel security - reducing dependence on imported oil.
If you accept that argument, then there is no justification for leisure boaters to get reduced fuel in my opinion. The issue is really one of reliability of supply to yachts, especially where they would make a very small percentage of the overall fuel sales, so keeping a separate tank would be uneconomic. Then, in my opinion, the EU is simply being awkward in not letting yachts use red diesel, even if full tax has been paid on it.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
True, but there is no control once the can leaves the forecourt.
Last time I filled up with Red it cost more than white from Tesco! I top up on each visit to the boat; from a wee 5l can. Others have much bigger cans and far more of them.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
I agree the cost to the uk government of maintaining the sea and its surface should be recouped in tax. Not sure whether I prefer asphalt or concrete surfacing on the sea though and there are to many direction sign and speed restriction signs at sea.
