Red Diesel. HMG. Details.

I rather hoped that post Brexit we could go back to the old days of fully rebated, cheaper, fuel.

Probably a bit optimistic, perhaps retaining 60/40 could be seen as a good result?
 
Glad to see the Government have the attentions in the right place presently ! Indeed quite an insult in view of Brexit - should be tellign the EU Court to do one.

The document does not explain what we have to do with the red already in the tanks on the day this becomes law.
 
superheat6k said:
The document does not explain what we have to do with the red already in the tanks on the day this becomes law.
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I imagine the original plan was for all marinas or others selling to boats will have to start taking white diesel in the near future (although there may be other things occupying the government at the moment which may delay any changes and in any case no boats are likely to be moving so diesel sales may be a bit slow - just guessing ).
It will take a few refills before the marinas diesel tank is not tainted with the red dye.
The same goes for boats . I doubt anyone deliberately runs a boat tank empty before refuelling. So more than a few top ups until the diesel is white. Probably a couple or three years or more in many cases.
 
Rather think that HMRC will be collecting every last farthing it can in the near future.
Simple job for our fuel officer as only pleasure craft on the moorings, so tank will be " white" only and whole lot less paperwork and time saved.
We do have a few members who are commercial fishermen and only pay the 11p rate of their fuel.
They will have fill up elsewhere, which might pose a problem, the only other source of "Red" locally was a fuel barge and he has recently retired.
 
In the 1970s I bought a second hand London black cab as my car - great fun. Very few private cars were diesel in those days. One day I was stopped by a policeman and directed to an HM Customs van which was a mobile laboratory. They dipped my tank and tested the sample. They told me they could detect the red dye down to a few parts per million. I was clean and went on my way.

We have refuelled our boat only 4 times since purchase in 2015. We carry 3,500 litres and burn less than 2,000 litres p.a. so we usually have about 1,000 litres remaining when we re-fuel. If we start using white diesel tomorrow I believe it could be up to 10 years before there is no remaining trace of red dye in our tanks and system. What will happen to us I wonder.
 
Similar for us, I haven’t filled for almost 3 years and still have half full tanks. So maybe 15 years for traces of red to disappear. If ever.
 
Completely unworkable in some areas where commercial & leisure boats share ports, fuel suppliers will have a choice of major financial outlay or choose which one to stock. Is there a mechanism for commercial operators to reclaim duty on white ?
 
Be careful with red diesel there are many variations.
The correct diesel is BS2869-2010 is ULS Red diesel that you should be using, this the higher cetane vale of 45, that can be used with common rail engines by adding a cetane improver, with improves the fuel to EN590 standards.

Watch out for MGO & even worse MDO

Absolute care must be carried out with you guys with large bunkering you need to use an additive to prevent nasties building up in your tank.
 
rubberduck said:
Completely unworkable in some areas where commercial & leisure boats share ports, fuel suppliers will have a choice of major financial outlay or choose which one to stock. Is there a mechanism for commercial operators to reclaim duty on white ?
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If it is “completely unworkable”, how does it work in every other European country - both in busy yachting areas and those much less frequented. Never had a problem getting diesel in our overseas boating travels.

Are these other countries much cleverer than us? Or are we just being parochial and negative, not looking at others’ successful experience?
 
B58 said:
Be careful with red diesel there are many variations.
The correct diesel is BS2869-2010 is ULS Red diesel that you should be using, this the higher cetane vale of 45, that can be used with common rail engines by adding a cetane improver, with improves the fuel to EN590 standards. Watch out for MGO & even worse MDO
Absolute care must be carried out with you guys with large bunkering you need to use an additive to prevent nasties building up in your tank.
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Good advice, but I have never taken anything other than FAME-free marine diesel. And taking it from a road tanker gives me assurance of supply. The one and only time I filled from a pump was at the fishing quay at Padstow in the good old days (2017) when their throughput ensured fresh stock. The engine is not common rail, it's an old-fashioned John Deere tractor engine. I treat with Stanadyne Performance Formula and for the last load I added biocide for the first time because the refineries are saying they can't actually guarantee FAME-free any longer. But I've never seen a drop of water in our supply tank drain or any of the 5 Racor filter bowls - and there's a built-in fuel polishing system so it doesn't just sit around. Our boat is built for this sort of infrequent fuelling practice which has been an advantage up to now but it does mean we'll have traces of the red dye for years to come.
 
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Used about 2250 litres last year.
Tanks hold 675 litres.
3 complete changes of fuel PA.
Run down both tanks to clear Red and refill with white. Virtually all traces gone within a couple od seasons,probably a lot sooner.
 
dunedin said:
If it is “completely unworkable”, how does it work in every other European country - both in busy yachting areas and those much less frequented. Never had a problem getting diesel in our overseas boating travels.

Are these other countries much cleverer than us? Or are we just being parochial and negative, not looking at others’ successful experience?
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So how do they do it ?
 
I imagine a harbour that supplies fishing boats will
(i) Stick to red and supply fishing (or commercial) boats only or
(ii) Change to white and charge different rates of duty exactly as they do now or
(iii)Change to white and charge full duty and leave the boat owner to claim any rebate that might be due.

In theory FAME free white diesel should be available............... (assuming FAME free actually exists).
 
MartynG said:
In theory FAME free white diesel should be available............... (assuming FAME free actually exists).
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I have been told that all UK refineries now refuse to warrant that any diesel is FAME-free. For practical purposes however marine diesel is probably still OK. The trouble is we don't know what goes in to marina tanks which is why I always wait until I can bunker from a road tanker (usually a minimum of 2,000 litres) and get confirmation of what the fuel is. I have never fuelled our boat in a marina and never will.
 
One marina chain use a fuel additive for their diesel.. Others may not.. so what happens when you add your own additive, will it be an emulsifier, demulsifier or something completely different? Will the additives mess with each other? Forecourt white is now nearly 28p per litre cheaper than the local marina with a 60/40 split .

Speaking of "marine diesel" its definition is something along the lines of small amount of sulphur and absolutely zero bio fuel content..
 
Rappey said:
Forecourt white is now nearly 28p per litre cheaper than the local marina with a 60/40 split .
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Can't say I have looked at our local marina prices recently but red at the 60/40 split has , for me, always been cheaper than supermarket white even if occasionally by a modest amount.
Supermarket fuel is presently cheap a chips due to the corona-virus having cut demand. So that snot really a fair comparison.

Or perhaps your local marina is particularly expensive ?
 
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