Real Differences Between Mass Produced and Quality Yachts

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At risk of alienating some traditionalists I would like people's opinions on what is the real difference between say a Bavaria Cruiser 33 and a Hallbergh Rassy 342.

I will find the prices later but I think it may be 3 to 1.

When I compare on sailcalc the displacement etc are pretty similar.

So here we go:

Mahogony interior............... I don't want one!!!
Lead keel .......................... Maybe an option on some AWBs?
Tankage................. but I read that at least water ought to be kept in bottles for an ocean crossing due to potential contamination issues.
Fittings are the same??

So some of the difference in price must be from efficiencies in mass production.

In the good old days MABs had long keels, a seakindly motion etc. But to my unexpert eye a HR 342 or 372 is now medium displacement etc.

So why not buy an AWB for essentially its hull and upgrade it? Then you are starting new.

I just bought a 1994 boat and have probably spent 50% of its purchase price on new sails, prop, etc etc

So what is the best AWB hull??!!
 
Different philosophy in the build and design.

The competitively priced brands are built of necessity with an emphasis on economy of build, what will look OK and perform OK but with less finesse or solidity than the heavies.
Hallberg and their ilk are selling on the expensive feel of the fit out and the solidity of the hulls and rig and people will pay for this if they have the capability.

I own the former and have sailed the latter, by comparison the Hallberg seems almost over engineered like a piece of Victorian machinery.
There is no way you could add this feel to a mass produced boat.
 
GrahamM376 said:
Your question is a bit like why pay for a Landrover when a Fiat Panda could also be had with 4 wheel drive.
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I fully agree! Even if you look at the bare hull only you do pay for a well constructed, reliable one and, believe me, a non-professional can perceive the differences too.
When boats are brand new it may be difficult to perceive them but I bet that after ten-twenty years the flaws come out of the closet clearly.

Daniel
 
danielefua said:
I fully agree! Even if you look at the bare hull only you do pay for a well constructed, reliable one and, believe me, a non-professional can perceive the differences too.
When boats are brand new it may be difficult to perceive them but I bet that after ten-twenty years the flaws come out of the closet clearly.

Daniel
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More probably 10 - 20 weeks.

I'd not knock the AWB, designed for the average yottie - occasional weekend sails, marina berthed with lots of room to show off to friends.Vice-free handling, quite high quality deckgear, electrics. I'd never try and compare a Bavaria with an HR - however the early Bavarias were well-built, easy handled boats. In their pursuit of the French many corners have had to be cut.
Of course all have been pursuing the mass charter market.
I speak as one who's worked on many AWBs but have a British-built and designed boat which I wouldn't consider swapping for a BavBenJan OR for any HR.
 
Bump a rock with a quality boat. Ooops.

Bump a rock with a BenJanBav oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....how much and how long to fix it???

( Hit a rock properly with either and much tears and heartache will follow)

Someones already mentioned depreciation.
 
Mass produced does not necessarily imply a lack of quality. Quite the opposite, in some ways, because a well equipped modern manufacturing plant will be able to achieve a consistency of which a few blokesi n a shed can only dream. Compare, for example, a modern Jaguar, which has a bodyshell made to tolerances of fractions of a millimetre, and an E-type which was so unpredictably made that the bonnets were supplied with unfinished rear edges so they could be individually fitted to the cars.
 
I wonder if its a case of wait 30 years and see what's still sailing? Does time sort this question? Of course that's not much use today!

I remember sleeping in a newish yacht and being able to tell that the sun had risen, as it was detectable through the hull. I compare that with drilling a hole in the hull in our Rival 32, and realising why its so heavy with that thickness of fibreglass.
 
MM5AHO said:
I wonder if its a case of wait 30 years and see what's still sailing? Does time sort this question? Of course that's not much use today!

I remember sleeping in a newish yacht and being able to tell that the sun had risen, as it was detectable through the hull. I compare that with drilling a hole in the hull in our Rival 32, and realising why its so heavy with that thickness of fibreglass.
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My Westerly (1976) had an area of GRP towards the aft end of one cockpit seat so thin that it was translucent - if you looked down the quarterberth during the day you could see light at the far end. That's hand built quality for you.
 
It depends on whether one sees a boat as being 'disposable' or as a companion for a longer time. My Wauquiez will be 42 next March. She is now worth more or less as much as a 10-year old 'modern' boat. What will these boats be worth in 30 years' time... that is, if they are still around? Somehow, after seeing their glass fibres sloughing off in sheets during powerwashing at the yard, I don't think so.

Quality costs.
 
As stated earlier, depreciation. I like to observe that with low interest rates the price of a boat is the difference between how much you paid for the boat and the price you sold it for.

High quality is in fact cheaper than low quality.
 
"after seeing their glass fibres sloughing off in sheets during powerwashing at the yard"


Holy fek !!!!!!!! Batman

prob all shit built bavs like mine ;)

still thats some picture you evoke there !

Thickness of glass and weight of layup doesnt always mean stronger , we built 6 oppies for nippers at our club we evolved our building last built were lighter , less glass less resin and stronger , through test of time .

As for seeing through Fibreglass , give away is in its name "glass " it is see through ,opacity is dependant on additives that that reduce it , ie coloured pigments etc , which prob reduce strengthly slightly .

a
 
Ok.

But noone has answered my questions. Just general HR is better than Bavaria........

The weight of the latest hallberg rassys is no different to the awbs? (unless I am wrong)

I think the arguments so far refer to older HRs or the like?

So is the hull layup completely different on a modern HR to a Bavaria??

Landrovers are mass produced so get economies of scale. So the comparison is not valid. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent in the boat building industry??

So is everyone saying there is no option to buying ridiculously expensive Rustler, HR etc to get a good quality hull whilst paying for an interior fit for Buckingham Palace and a massive premium for the small run nature of the build???
 
Can you tell which boat is the quality one and which the mass production? (they look similar design)
 

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