RCD Nightmare

[HursleyPhil]

I am trying to buy a 1999 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40 which has spent its entire life in Turkey under a German flag. I can't get a straight answer from anyone about whether or not I'm going to need to make it RCD compliant. The main issues are:

1) It was made in France in 1999 so ought to have a CE mark but no one knows and no-one including Jeanneau or Bureau Veritas (French Lloyds) appear to know
2) If I buy it, but register it under the Turkish flag and keep it in Turkey that ought to be OK but I don't know if I can do this.

Help... it's bureaucracy gone bad. Does everyone buying a second hand boat outside the EU have to go through this?

Phil

 

[Billjratt]

The ship has to be registered to a resident of the flag country.
Regardless of registration, you still don't have the RCD documentation. Get them to sort it or walk away - it could get painful later. If it was a car............

 

[Talbot]

[ QUOTE ]
Help... it's bureaucracy gone bad. Does everyone buying a second hand boat outside the EU have to go through this?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[HursleyPhil]

Yes - I fear you're right. Thanks

 

[Marsupial]

The CE mark is (should be) on a plate fixed on the cockpit combing by the engine control. The other place to look is on the outside of the hull starbd quarter. The number molded into the hull should match the number on the plate. These numbers should also appear on the existing bill of sale. Photographic evidence of this should be easy to obtain.

Thats the easy bit.

Sorry cannot help with the RCD

Good luck

 

[jonic]

If a plate or paperwork can not be provided avoid.

 

[Guest]

OTOH on another thread about VAT most people seemed comfortable to buy a boat without proof that VAT had been paid. It is known that the authorities check VAT, but has anyone heard of them checking RCD status? And what are the penalties if caught with a non-RCD boat?

Personally I'd feel uncomfortable without the VAT document too, but why the different attitudes towards the two bits of paper?

 

[jonic]

As brokers we are now advised to be very careful. A potential problem will be if after an accident the correct papers can not be produced for the insurance companies involved.

 

[Koeketiene]

Where you buy the boat is neither here nor there: Turkey, Tuvalu, the Moon,...

The main thing is: where's the boat registered?
In this case Germany - boats registered in Germany (EU country) should be by virtue of their registration RCD compliant.

Have you thought about VAT yet /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[MoodySabre]

The RYA might be able to help if you are a member.

 

[fireball]

The boat is a NEW well known production boat within the EU - it is even still listed on the Jeanneau website (more than mine is despite being from the same ppl!). The RCD status is granted to the design rather than the individual boat - so it's RCD compliance shouldn't be in question - although which category it falls under could be interesting.
I don't know what paperwork comes with the boat on it's RCD compliance but I would've thought Jeanneau (or a local dealer) should be able to help.....

 

[Sailfree]

As Turkey is outside the EU if you bring it inside the EU (even Greece) my understanding that you will have to pay VAT - beware.

It seems wrong to me but even if a UK subject pays VAT on a new boat, takes it outside the EU, sells it there to another UK subject, that UK subject will have to pay the VAT on the secondhand value if they bring it back into the EU. It seems double taxation to me but thats my understanding of the rules.

The CE mark may be the least of your worries!!

 

[duncan]

[ QUOTE ]
The RCD status is granted to the design rather than the individual boat

[/ QUOTE ]

really?

my boat (Spanish production model 2001) has it's RCD compliance paperwork linked to it's (personal) HIN number

buying an identical production model in the US to those shipped will not get you RCD compliance even if the model has it. In this case I am using small craft (bayliner/searay) with no shorepower or other potential differences in the example.

With regard to the original post the boat will have a unique HIN number on the hull which should easily be capable of reference back by the manufacturer - has this been tried? (I read the couldn't trace the boat but was the HIN number provided?)

 

[fireball]

Duncan - my understanding is that a design is checked and approved to a specific RCD category - usually through a prototype or preproduction model. The manufacturers can then continue to make boats to the same specification (sometimes with minor changes) without having to have each and every vessel inspected.
The Jeanneau Sun Oddysey 40 was (I believe) a standard production model - and therefore if made within the EU it should already be approved for it's RCD category - however, reading the info below - each vessel should be identified by a HIN number and have a CE mark on the builders plate ...

Taken from: http://www.yachtbroker.ie/rcd.asp

[ QUOTE ]
RCD - Recreational Craft (RC) Directives 94/25/EC and 2003/44/EC

What is the Recreational Craft Directive (RCD)?

The RCD is a legal requirement in European Member States (EEA). Recreational craft must conform to the Essential Requirements (ERs). It is good for consumers since it details the minimum acceptable standards for design and construction of recreational craft. Manufacturers also recommend design categories and maximum recommended loads which can be found on the builders plate. It is suggested that some caution is exercised when applying Design Categories, as the user's experience and skill must also be considered.

What is the Amending Directive?

The Amending Directive was introduced and consolidated with the Recreational Craft Directive on 30 th June 2004, however most of the additional requirements of the amending directive did not become mandatory until 1 st January, 2006. This guide has been updated in order to reflect these changes.

Which boats need to comply?

All recreational craft of between 2.5m and 24m which have been put onto the market or into service in the European Community (EEA) since 16 th June, 1998 and that are not exempt.

What are there exemptions from RCD compliance?

The main exempt craft include;
bullet

Craft intended solely for racing, including rowing boats and training rowing boats labelled as such by the manufacturer,
bullet

Canoes and kayaks, gondolas and pedalos. Sailing surfboards. Surfboards including powered surfboards. Submersibles. Air cushion vehicles. Hydrofoils.
bullet

Original, and individual replicas of historical craft designed before 1950 and built predominantly from original materials and labelled as such by the manufacturer.
bullet

Experimental craft, provided that they are not subsequently placed on the Community market.
bullet

Craft built for own use, provided they are not subsequently placed on the Community market during a period of five years,
bullet

Craft specifically intended to be crewed and to carry passengers for commercial purposes (see directive for full text).
bullet

External combustion steam powered craft, fuelled by coal, coke, wood, oil or gas.

Who is responsible for compliance?

The company or person first placing the product on the European Market (EEA). Putting into service is considered to be the same as placing on the market, so a boat brought into the EEA from outside should be CE marked by the importer.

Therefore if you are considering purchasing a craft from outside of the EEA for import you are strongly advised to check that a craft is compliant prior to purchase and also to factor in the RCD compliance costs into your budget.

What are the builder's obligations?

The builder must;
bullet

Complete a Technical Construction File (TCF) for each model or family of craft.
bullet

Produce an owner's manual in the language of the country where the craft is being sold.
bullet

Supply a written Declaration of Conformity.
bullet

Label the craft with a CE mark, usually on the builders plate.

The manufacture must satisfy these requirements even if using a self-assessment module.

How do I know that a boat does comply?

The most important document is the Builder's Declaration of Conformity. However if you are looking at boats for purchase, good indicators are having a valid HIN number at the starboard side of the transom, a builder's plate with a CE mark near the steering position and an owner's manual. Usually the Builder's Declaration of Conformity is appended to the owner's manual.

What happens if a boat is not CE Marked?

Non compliance is a criminal offence. Operators can encounter difficulties when travelling from state to state or when selling their craft within the European market without appropriate documentation.

There is a real risk that should a non-compliant craft be involved in a marine accident it will be traced back to the builder or importer who could be considered to be negligent.

With an increased awareness to the RCD brokers and purchasers are unlikely to touch recreational craft that have been built or imported since 16 th June, 1998 unless they are supplied with an acceptable Builder's Declaration of Conformity.

What is a Notified Body and what do they do?

Notified Bodies are Government appointed organisations that will verify technical information provided by the manufacturer before issuing EC Type Examination Certification or authorising the builder to affix the Notified Bodies distinguishing mark on the builders plate.

A Notified body must be involved in Design Category A, B or C [craft over 12m] assessment and also to issue a report for all Post Construction assessments, however builders may self certify Category C and D assessments for craft under 12m.

What boats need to comply with noise emissions requirements?

Essential requirements for noise emissions of propulsion engines were added by the Amending Directive. Since this topic is complex, the following advice is only intended for one-off assessments. It is worth seeking an expert's advice if it is unclear whether the installation being considered complies or if you are a series production builder where a boat family approach might be considered.

All craft with a Froude number of less than 1.1 and a Power Displacement ratio of less than 40 are deemed to comply with the noise requirements. This means that most displacement craft comply. However these calculations must to be certified by a Notified Body.

If the craft has an outboard motor or an engine and sterndrive with an integral exhaust, these should have been tested by the engine manufacturer. The sterndrive should be CE marked and a Certificate of Conformity should be supplied with the engine.

If the outboard motor or engine and sterndrive installation were offered to the market or put into service in the EEA prior to 1 st January, 2006 then it does not need to comply.

If the installation is not in any of these three groups, then a "pass by" (on the water) test is likely to be required. This can be expensive and will require notified body involvement.

What boats need to comply with exhaust emissions requirements?

Essential requirements for exhaust emissions of propulsion engines were added by the Amending Directive. If the engine was offered to market or put into service in the EEA prior to 1 st January, 2006 then it need not comply with the exhaust emission requirement.

If not it must be correctly CE marked by the engine manufacturer and a Certificate of Conformity should be supplied with the engine . If neither of these requirements are met, testing is likely to be required which may prove difficult and expensive.

Terminology

Design Categories

A. OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, and vessels largely self-sufficient.

B. OFFSHORE: Designed for waves of up to 4m significant height and a wind of Beaufort force 8 or less. Such conditions may be encountered on offshore voyages of sufficient length or on coasts where shelter may not always be immediately available. Such conditions may also be experienced on inland seas of sufficient size for the wave height to be generated.

C. INSHORE: Designed for waves of up to 2m significant height and a typical steady wind force of Beaufort force 6 or less. Such conditions may be encountered on exposed inland waters, and in coastal waters in moderate weather conditions.

D. SHELTERED WATERS: Designed for voyages on sheltered coastal waters, small bays, small lakes, rivers and canals when conditions up to, and including, wind force 4 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 0.3m may be experienced, with occasional waves of 0.5m maximum height, for example from passing vessels.

Declaration of Conformity; certifies that the craft meets the Essential Safety Requirements.

Essential Requirements (ER); these are based on a comprehensive list in the RSG Guidelines, compliance can normally be demonstrated by applying a relevant harmonised standard (ISO) or equivalent.

Froude Number; Fn = V / (g*Lwl) 0.5 where V = boat speed in m/s, g = 9.8 m/s and Lwl in metres.

Owner's Manual; includes details of the craft and manufacturer. Loading and design category information and guidelines as to the safe operation of the craft and its systems, as may be requires by the ER's.

Power Displacement Ratio; = P/D where P = engine power (kW) and D = Displacement (tonnes).

Technical Construction File (TCF); the manufacturer is required to complete and retain technical documentation which demonstrates a yachts compliance with the RCD


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[duncan]

I think we are agreeing - whilst the checking etc is for the model the manufacturer has to complete documents for each craft confirming that it complies. Effectively the type is tested but each craft has it's own docs.........

 

[fireball]

Yup - I didn't realise each craft needed it's own docs ... mind u - doing a CE label isn't exactly rocket science ... so it is just a HIN no he needs! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[duncan]

HIN should enable the succesfull trace back in the manufacturers records

should of course being the operative word..........

 

[luddites]

You should be very wary of this. If the boat had been put on the market by Jeanneau in the EU she would have to be fully RCD compliant and CE marked, but it's not the manufacture that's the key, its offering the product for sale. There could be a scenario where the boat was part of a special order for charter use sold to Turkey outside the EU trading area, and therefore there is no requirement for the boat to conform to the RCD. It is possible the builders could offer boats at a cheaper price by not complying. The boats may not be much different or indeed inferior but it still leaves you with the problem of post certification. So get proof. Find the CE plate, if it's not there walk away.