Raymarine v Garmin v B&G v Furuno v Simrad etc

[Ric]

I would be interested in opinions about the relative merits of the various instruments networks now available.

I have Raymarine which seems to be the most complete system available with a very wide range of instruments, sensors, cameras, radios and gadgets which can be networked. There is no broadband radar or forward looking sonar, but that is about all that is missing from their range.

Garmin is a late starter, but seem to have set Raymarine in their sites with a rapidly expanding range.

B&G seems to be the choice of the performance orientated sailors (why?) but has a fairly small range of instruments. As far as I can see with a quick look at their website there is not even a basic fishfinder that can be networked.

Furuno is the choice of commercial working boats, and their instrumentation for sailing boats seems rather basic.

Any other opinions?

 

[RIBW]

I would be interested in opinions about the relative merits of the various instruments networks now available.

I have Raymarine which seems to be the most complete system available with a very wide range of instruments, sensors, cameras, radios and gadgets which can be networked. There is no broadband radar or forward looking sonar, but that is about all that is missing from their range.

Garmin is a late starter, but seem to have set Raymarine in their sites with a rapidly expanding range.

B&G seems to be the choice of the performance orientated sailors (why?) but has a fairly small range of instruments. As far as I can see with a quick look at their website there is not even a basic fishfinder that can be networked.

Furuno is the choice of commercial working boats, and their instrumentation for sailing boats seems rather basic.

Any other opinions?

+1 As my instruments age, features evolve and technology changes, I have been looking at how to update instruments on board so that I don't end up in a cul-de-sac of incompatible kit. I have been thinking of doing a survey of manufacturers against my needs. Thinking about what those needs are, it occured to me that my main bugbears with the existing kit have not been the basic operating features but other aspects such as ergonomics, manuals written by the designers and not user tested, networking protocols, power consumption, lack of firmware updates, withdrawal from the product range and chart compatibility. Ideally we should be able to network any manufacturer's kit, leaving us the customer to choose the feature set that suits our boating style.
Winter is young; the survey may yet happen.
Cheers
Bob

 

[adwuk]

Bear in mind that both B&G and Simrad are Navico companies, and share much of the same stuff. The B&G triton displays are brilliant (literally) and we have 3 linked to a network of depth, temp, log, wind, compass and zeus chart plotter. For sailing, it gives us most of what we need.

If you add the instrumentation you are looking for, you may get more help.

 

[Fendant]

B&G and Simrad are identical, except the Software. B&G is more sailing focussed.
You can add all sensors of the Navico program into the System, fishfinders, Radar,flir...........

 

[gjgm]

Well Raymarine was bought out a few years ago and one might hope finally installed someone in customer support. Popular in UK, but it was a UK company. Garmin use their own charting style, which certainly aimed to simplify the 500 year old style of marine charts. Simrad main division is commercial I think, but they run as said Navico run three brands for leisure.
A few years ago, a chartplotter was just that. Now the glory is multifunction; whether you think it is a huge bonus to be able to set the oven from the helm, I don't know. Wifi is an option from sets costing £600.
So to my mind unless you really need all those wonderful options, the main value is in how intuitive it is to use. Certainly three years a go when I moved to Garmin, I never picked up a manual, whereas with raymarine you couldn't leave the marina without it. I daresay new Raymarine is now better.
So, chart style and costs of charts, and ease of use. That is personal, so the only way is to go to a show and play, IMHO

 

[macd]

Bear in mind that both B&G and Simrad are Navico companies, and share much of the same stuff....

As is Lowrance, who probably make more fishy stuff than anyone else. The 'broadband' radar from all three brands, fr'instance, is identical apart from the name stuck on it. The same doesn't seem to be true, though, of nav instruments and chartplotters.

 

[Bru]

Having looked closely at the offerings from all of the manufacturers, I'm opting for Raymarine when I can afford to upgrade the rather dated kit on the new boat

Raymarine because

a> they offer the best and most comprehensive range of integrated MFDs, instruments and ancillaries (only Garmin comes close)
b> Lighthouse II ver.15 is the bees knees - AIS target and alarm handling, for instance, is miles ahead of everybody else
c> it will readily integrate with the existing SPX-5 autopilot
d> since being acquired by FLIR they really seem to be getting their act together
e> The WiFi and android app support on the E series MFDs means I can avoid the expense of two MFDs and use a tablet at the pilot house helm instead

The lack of a "broadband" radar is a downside granted but their HD looks good enough for my purposes (and I might even be sufficiently constrained financially to end up saving the £400 or so and plump for the basic digital model). The advantages of the Raymarine setup as a whole, for me at any rate, far outweigh the lack of broadband radar

 

[richardbrennan]

I don't think you are necessarily committed to the same manufacturer for every piece of kit. I have Raymarine instruments, radar and autopilot linked to a Garmin plotter, an Icom radio and a Digital Yachts AIS transceiver. It all talks to each other through a combination of NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000, the later being a doddle to set up.

 

[Robin]

I was always a RayMarine fan and disliked Garmin on principle when they switched charting mid-stream leaving existing customers up the creek sans chips.

My current boat came with non functional Raymarine stuff however, in the USA, and I have switched allegiance to Garmin with all new networked NMEA200 stuff, plotter, radar, AIS transceiver, Windspeed and wind directiob instruments, triducer, with depth/water temp/boatspeed displayed on GM10 instrument heads in wheel mounted 'pods' as well as on the 10" network display ( in a tilting/swvivelling pod on the coachroof.) I have however retained the Raymarine wheel pilot autopilot, albeit upgraded to a newer version. The pilot is still on NMEA0183 but does talk and listen to the Garmin gear so it can follow a 'track' as well as follow a compass or maintain the wind angle.

The Garmin gear is very good and apart from a freakin' pelican flipping off the wind direction vane, fortunately dropping it on deck so it could later be replaced, it has been trouble free. The radar and AIS are overlaid onto the chart view which is aided by a Garmin fast acting heading sensor, separate from the Raymarine pilot one, also now a fast responding gyro type.

Our (standard Horizon) DSC VHF gets it's positional data from the Garmin network via NMEA0183 rather than NMEA2000.


I had B&G kit many years ago and it was always considered the bees knees back in the day, but others have caught up I suspect now. I wass never a fan of Navico or Simrad but did like Navman C-Map plotters and had two on one boat, but they are now old stuff probably taken over.

 

[bitbaltic]

Reinforcing what others have said, Navico made a decision about two years ago to position their brands into sectors rather than have them compete with each other. Hence Lowrance is now aimed at leisure fishing, Simrad at Mobos, B&G at sailing yachts.

The boxes themselves are often very similar with only superficial differences.

I had a bunch of Simrad stuff which works well, and back in the summer bought one of their last chart plotters which is really appropriate for a yacht, but the brand has moved away and if doing a full install I wouldn't buy Simrad now.

Beware if you have any stand alone 0183 kit the new MFDs at least from Navico will not talk to it unless you go down the route of a converter and essentially a fairly complex network to accommodate it.

Dunno what I'd look at if starting afresh. I am not a big fan of Raymarine. BUT they used to do- maybe still do- incredible discounts for sailing schools in order to capture trainees as potential customers. If you know a tame school principal I'd see if you can get a deal via them.

 

[Birdseye]

B&G seems to be the choice of the performance orientated sailors (why?) but has a fairly small range of instruments. As far as I can see with a quick look at their website there is not even a basic fishfinder that can be networked.

That is completely wrong - there are fancy fishfinders than can be networked with B&G - which for all practical purposes is the same as Simrad.

However, I refitted a couple of years ago moving from Raymarine analogue kit to B&G Zeus. It was a mistake. The B&G plotter isnt as well programmed as Raymarine's older kit let alone the latest stuff. Dont be deceived by the B&G label - for reasons that I wont go into I started with Simrad and ended up with |B&G and whilst there is some difference with an emphasis on sailing data with B&G the kit is the same. Just the programs differ.

Having had various Garmin over the years I wouldnt trust them with serious money on sailing kit. My suggestion would be Raymarine.

 

[bitbaltic]

That is completely wrong - there are fancy fishfinders than can be networked with B&G - which for all practical purposes is the same as Simrad.

However, I refitted a couple of years ago moving from Raymarine analogue kit to B&G Zeus. It was a mistake. The B&G plotter isnt as well programmed as Raymarine's older kit let alone the latest stuff. Dont be deceived by the B&G label - for reasons that I wont go into I started with Simrad and ended up with |B&G and whilst there is some difference with an emphasis on sailing data with B&G the kit is the same. Just the programs differ.

Having had various Garmin over the years I wouldnt trust them with serious money on sailing kit. My suggestion would be Raymarine.

I think I (and others) just explained that B&G/Simrad/Lowrance is functionally all the same, as well as the reasons why, in posts above?

I would probably reluctantly agree with the Raymarine recommendation, with the proviso that in the modern age, a cruiser intended say to make passages greater than 12 hours is decidedly best served by a navigation PC at the chart table with the other instrumentation being so similar from the vendors as to be just about personal choice.

 

[Robin B]

Love my Simrad NSS12, 4G radar etc etc. Great set-up and does me very well. 40' motor cruiser.

 

[Billjratt]

I've inherited Raymarine instruments on a couple of boats and, while they work most of the time they have letdowns. NMEA out is incompatible with NMEA specification, so can't be understood by standard equipment.
The masthead anaemometer seems to be good and is easily maintained during the off season.(Lasts a lot longer than NASA - check them around the marina, count the cups)
Old ST50 had poor backlight/night vision problems.
I believe Garmin (4008) provide a well made product with lots of features, but don't like their Bluechart presentation as much as my (Cobra) CMapmax.
If I had no dosh constraints however, I would be reading the Furuno catalogue, having had their radar, GPS30 and (still have) VHF. They do stuff for professionals and it filters down to us in the leisure sector.

 

[Bru]

I've inherited Raymarine instruments on a couple of boats and, while they work most of the time they have letdowns. NMEA out is incompatible with NMEA specification, so can't be understood by standard equipment.

??????

Not in my experience, no problems whatsoever connecting NMEA0183 inputs and outputs on Raymarine kit to other devices

NMEA2000 to SeatalkNG does require an adaptor cable but that's it

Your not confusing Seatalk (aka Seatalk1) with NMEA by any chance?

 

[Minchsailor]

If I had no dosh constraints however, I would be reading the Furuno catalogue, having had their radar, GPS30 and (still have) VHF. They do stuff for professionals and it filters down to us in the leisure sector.

+1. Their kit does seem a bit more robust.

 

[Javelin]

I know Raymarine can do everything I need and I've fitted four of these systems this year on customers boats.
I've fitted one Garmin System and two Navico systems (B&G & Simrad)

So when it came to choosing a new system for my boat, with my sort of sailing in mind I've decided to go with B&G.
Wind, depth, speed sensors, two Triton displays, Zeus2 9" mfd, Wifi router, linked in with a Digital Yacht 1500 ais transponder and an Ipad for the chart table mirroring the Zeus2.
Cost wise there is not a huge difference between the mainstream brands but I found fitting the Navico systems easier and more intuitive. (I found the fitting the raymarine system frustrating at times)
I particularity like the B&G triton displays and two of these does the same as the five old B&G analogue ones I had before.
Radar can wait a while as my old Navman radar still works ok for the very few occasions I use it, thanks largely to the ais and lucky avoidance of sailing in fog for the past couple of years.

 

[laika]

Raymarine because
[...]
e> The WiFi and android app support on the E series MFDs means I can avoid the expense of two MFDs and use a tablet at the pilot house helm instead

Both Garmin and Raymarine do that thing of having their plotters act as access points which you have to connect to to get any data out of them using a dedicated app. Problem here is twofold: the data you get out is in a proprietary format so you can't connect e.g. OpenCPN to it, only the official manufacturer's apps. Secondly this gives most people the headache of having to choose to connect their iPads *either* to the Internet *or* the boat. You can't quickly flip between checking your email and checking the plotter.

Personally I prefer the navico approach. You connect their plotters to any wireless router (you don't have to use theirs, sold separately). Their plotter screen repeater app uses a proprietary protocol but they also chuck out "NMEA-0183-over-IP" which can then be used by various 3rd party apps.

NOTE: opinion based on extensive research rather than product ownership. I have ancient ST50s wired in ways which seem to differ from month to month to some kind of home-brew access point.

Beware if you have any stand alone 0183 kit the new MFDs at least from Navico will not talk to it unless you go down the route of a converter and essentially a fairly complex network to accommodate it.

That lack of an NMEA-0183 output does seem a bit rubbish and the actisense NGW-1 which a dealer would probably try and flog you to do the conversion is £125-ish. A cheaper alternative might be to take the "gofree" NMEA-0183-over-IP feed from the ethernet port and convert it to serial via an ethernet-to-serial adapter, microcontroller with an ethernet and serial interface, single board computer or similar.

 

[Billjratt]

??????

Not in my experience, no problems whatsoever connecting NMEA0183 inputs and outputs on Raymarine kit to other devices

NMEA2000 to SeatalkNG does require an adaptor cable but that's it

Your not confusing Seatalk (aka Seatalk1) with NMEA by any chance?

No, the NMEA OUT from the ST60 multi instrument is unreadable by a standard device. It's not actually intended to be I don't think.
Here's how to make it work - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...tial-NMEA-to-Single-Ended&highlight=opto+nmea

 

[Bru]

No, the NMEA OUT from the ST60 multi instrument is unreadable by a standard device. It's not actually intended to be I don't think.
Here's how to make it work - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...tial-NMEA-to-Single-Ended&highlight=opto+nmea

Ah, so we're talking about a specific piece of obsolete equipment which had a specific problem. Your post implied a generic problem with all Raymarine NMEA outputs including current production equipment which from experience I know is not the case

(Just to confuse matters, by the way, the NMEA out from an ST60 Multi worked fine with an Actisense NMEA multiplexer! NMEA is a bit of a kludge frankly)