Rattly, smokey Perkins 4107 or 08

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dannyboy

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I've been for a second viewing of a boat today and got the owner to start the engine (Perkins 4107 or 08). First of all - does anyone know how to tell the difference between the two visually? Secondly - it smoked like hell for 2 or 3 minutes or so (thick grey smoke) until it warmed up, but then cleared. Now, I've had some older diesel cars over the years which could all have a good old chug when first fired up, but this seemd to be a bit excessive to me and for such a long time. The owner reckons "it's normal" - but then he would wouldn't he! Also, at tick over there was a severe rattle (like a very loose tappet), though this quietened down once the revs picked up. The rattle returned once the engine speed dropped back to tick over. With the engine hatch lifted it sounded quite severe. Has anyone got any knowledge of these engines and any clues as to what (if any) problems I might be treating myself to if I buy this boat?

Any help will be much appreciated. Kind regards.

DB /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
The smoke is normal with mine as well .....

Did he use the cold-start system ? This tends to drop a small bit of diesel intothe air-intake onto a glow element ... if it doesn't burn all - it can add to the smoke ....

The rattle ?? Dunno - that needs checking. But the smoke is not unusual on older Perkins ...

As to difference of 4-107 / 4-108 .....without taking the engine out and checking serial numbers / parts etc. - they are near enough same engine. In fact there are 3 engines in the range ... 4-99 then came the 4-107 and last was the 4-108. They all based on same block etc. The last number denotes the swept volume of the engine. Within the 3 engines of the range are various variants of HP and RPM - depending on job it was built for. So HP can in fact range from about 29HP up to about 45HP .... and that is why you see such different figures in posts / adverts etc.

You have one good advantage with them - they are popular and spares are easily obtained ... they can be worked on by literally any capable fitter ... and second-hand ones can be found in yards .... My 4-99 gave up and was replaced with a 4-107 .... engine cost me £250 ... it's been in for 2-3 years now and runs a dream ... It does have a tendency to smoke a bit for a couple of minutes on starting ... it also "clacks" a bit till its warmed up ... but has ben checked and found fine ... just sticky rings.

I would suggest have a diesel mechanic friend (one who preferably knows Marine Diesels) to have a look .....
 
The rattle on tickover and the grey smoke of start is most likely due to an out of tollerance injector. Getting the injectors serviced would help out. You will probably still have some smoke on startup, but it would quieten down the rattle (Diesel knock)

I had a similar noise on my car recently, one injector wasnt firing properly, causing grey and black smoke, coupled with a knocking noise.
 
I too inherited a 4108 which was 28 years old. Beinga good lad, I followed the instructions in the Perkins manual, which says start using half throttle and preheat the engine for at least 30 seconds.

This has caused much problems when starting from cold...
basically not starting and clouds of smoke, usually with it starting on one cylinder and then slowly other cylinders cutting in.

So... no preheat and start on tickover. Engine catches immediately, with little or no smoke. ( worth also just checking the air filter is clean)

Conclusion too much throttle amd preheat puts too much diesel into when all is a said and done is a 28 year old lump.

Once started when cold it instantly starts on the first crank... question is, did your engine start instantly once warm ... if so
probably not too much to worry about as long as the oil pressure is 40-60 psi at 750 rpm.
If you want to differentiate between the 4107 and 08, you can look at the engineering manual online at:-
HTTP://Users.Firenet.uk.com/Stewartbray/Perkins4108.pdf
 
Having re read your original post, the rattling you describe could be a loose tappet, but more likely is a duff "atomiser" which is a injector to you and me, which is probably not injecting properly at low RPM. If you read the online manual it tell you under "fault finding" how to test each cylinder at a time, to identify the duff injector
 
I would bleed it first, it may have air getting into the fuel system. If the tapits need adjustment, they will rattle much louder when the engine is cold. If the engine has been regularly used to charge the battery, and not done any other work, the engine will smoke. A bit of hard work normally fixes this.

Engine noises are amplified in boats, so it may not be so bad. You need someone with experience to advise you.

Philip
 
Sound like normal Perkins to me.
My twin 6354's Smoke and rattle but they are still going strong even after 25 years.
great engines...give far less problems than your average finely tuned modern diesels.

Steve.
 
My 4 108 rattled at slow revs because of a worn damper plate. This sits between the flywheel and the gearbox and dampens the torsional vibrations. It will wear untill it breaks eventually. Replacing is a winter job, not urgent.
If a cold diesel starts immediately I would say it is in acceptable condition.
How long has it not been used? Smoking may be less when you use it every week or so and let it work.
Keep smiling,
Theo.
 
Getting back to the decision-making if you're about to make an offer, I included "subject to engine and structural surveys" when I bought my angler with its 1968-vintage 6.354. What the Perkins engineer picked up was remedied by the vendor, no sweat.
 
Thankyou all very much for your replies. All of your comments are very gratefully received. For info - the owner did start the engine on about half throttle. Oil pressure at tickover (800rpm) was 50psi, so I guess this is fine. The engine did start easily a second time while it was still warm. I will try getting him to start it with no throttle or pre-heat and see what difference that makes. If I end up buying this boat, I will no doubt be after some more Perkins tips. Thanks to you all again.

Kind regards

DB /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
@dannyboy - How did this end up? I had a 4107 which ran for three years and siezed up due to being flooded with seawater and left for three years during Covid. I have bought another one and doing the swap over. Ill get the other one back and rebuild it either to sell or as a spare. If you look on the injector fram you can see the engine model and type. They say The 4107 has wet cylinder liners which eventually corrode through. The 4108 has dry liners which don't. The 4108 is obviously 1 cubic inch larger than the 4107. Both suffer from cracked heads and broken crankshafts, but the 4108 is definitely the better of the two. Also when you change the oil try to drain it completely, it doesnt like the sludge at the bottom. As an engine I love it, I had a Peugeot before which was the bane of my life.
 
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