RANT WARNING! Re routing the waste pipe to miss keep tank...

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z1ppy

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im in a really bad mood now!

how difficult would it be to re route the waste pipe from the toilet missing the waste tank and out direct?

i wont go into the whole story now but i am sick to death with dealers avoiding any kind of responsibility and "not my fault guv" when we have had the boat for less than 2 weeks!!!

im assuming its just a reroute of pipe??

thanks in advance
 
Not sure how it works on the S29, but on my S28, it wouldn't be straightforward.

You'd need a new length of outlet hose, as it wouldn't reach the sea cock in one run. Plus a large amount of pushing and shoving to get it routed.

Plus capping off the macerator and the inlet to the black water tanks - you can't just leave these ooozing black water into the bilge.

I've really no idea why on earth you would want to do this, though! It's a very strange thing to want to do, which is probably why the dealer is confused.

dv.
 
Humm.. in the short time we have had the boat we have had lots of problems with the waste tank and macerator. just though avoiding it would solve one problem but maybe generate others...

as far as im aware there is no standard option to reroute on the SC29 so assume it would need to be a long term fix.
 
What are you outting down the heads?

The oft stated mantra is that nothing should go down there that hasn't been eaten... in particular wet wipes are macerator killers... even particularly tough loo roll isn't good...

You shouldn't be having repeated problems with a 2 week old macerator....
 
nothing going down the toilet! thats the problem!

we have stayed on her for 2 night in a marina and no solids have gone down it, let alone anything not eaten!

hence my rant regarding "not my fault guv" we have to assume the tank was mostly full when they handed over the boat.
 
Be more precise as to exactly what the problem is: don't be squeamish.

If baby wipes or something else inappropriate has been down the loo, it could take weeks to sort out.

When SWMBO put wet wipes down last season (see thread "swmbo for sale") even once I'd cleared the initial blockage (in the outlet pipe), I had to take apart the macerator twice to un-stick things that were lurking in the tank.

Strangely, after a mild slapping had been administered, the system seems to be working perfectly with no mechanical changes.

Just to re-iterate: nothing but human waste (except hair and teeth) plus LIGHTWEIGHT toilet paper to go down: Happy Days. No Charmin Ultra.

Anything else: Grief, wearing of sack cloth, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and strange smells.

dv.
 
First thing to check are that the output pipe hasn't been "pinched" on installation - mine was.

Also check the "joker valve" at the bottom of the toilet isn't stuck.

But, overall, this is something the dealer should be attending to urgently.

dv.
 
If the waste tank outlet seacock is 38mm pipe it is easy enough, just buy a length of 38mm pipe and connect, bypassing the tank. you'll have to seal the tank connections to avoid smell.

If waste tank outlet seacock is smaller than 38mm, as is common with macerator pumps, you are stuck. You can't sensibly connect a toilet directly to a sub- 38mm seacock

Normally the way to do this is break into the 38mm pipe that goes from toilet to tank, and fit diverter valve, then fit 38mm pipe from one leg of diverter valve to a 38mm seacock. But if you dont already have the seacock you have to crane the boat out to fit one. That's obviously a big job but once done you can then choose whether to flush the loos to sea or tank. It's nice to have that choice.

Is your boat not already plumbed with a diverter valve and pipe? Many are (Fairlines are, frexample). Worth checking...
 
[ QUOTE ]

Be more precise as to exactly what the problem is: don't be squeamish.
Just to re-iterate: nothing but human waste (except hair and teeth) plus LIGHTWEIGHT toilet paper to go down: Happy Days. No Charmin Ultra.

Anything else: Grief, wearing of sack cloth, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and strange smells.

dv.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok.

boat is second hand. (build 2006) but was unused between november last year and end March this year.

since we dook delivery of her we have stayed on board for two nights (both on her berth in the marina with full use of their facilities) and spent a few afternoon reading the paper.

only number 1's have passed through that toilet whilst we have had it, for that i can be sure!

the pump spins fine for the first 20 seconds or so, then slows down as if the battery is flat until eventually it would stop.

there is an overflow (i assume from the tank breather) in the bilge. the tank is under the galley / saloon floor. the overflow is increasing (i cleaned it up last week and after a day on sunday (again with only number 1's) its back.

the waste tank full light is on and no amount of switching the pump seems to pump out.


broker advice.... take it to a pump out station...

i am almost 100% sure there is no manual switch. i would rather sort the pump problem over re routing, afterall it is there for a reason and i am sure there are plenty of others around that work fine!


i have to assume there was something in the tank before we took ownership as i assume the tank would need longer than the above mentioned use to fill??

i have calmed down now and no longer want to make this a hate campaign against anyone. i just want to be able to use the toilet without fear of getting wet feet when making a cuppa T.
 
I dont think its bad advice from the broker. Take the boat to a pump out station and empty the tank. Flush through clean water for a few tanks and then give the macerator another go.

Macerators are really fragile, and pipes get blocked very easily. If its a blocked pipe causing the problem, a length of coat hanger can sometimes do the trick.
 
Sounds as though the pump impeller has died a death. That would also explain why the tank is/was full when you took delivery of the boat.

Even if it's o.k. it sounds like someone's going to have to dismantle it to clear any potential blockage - but it would make sense to fit a new impeller whilst you're in there.

Might be best to bite the bullet and get in there - sounds like no one else is going to do it for you. It's not a pleasant task - but that would appear to be the lowest cost/quickest option.

Wear gloves and a mask if you can get one, have loads of kitchen roll around the pump as you dismantle it, with carrier bags to chuck the 'moistened' kitchen roll in. A fan blowing fresh air at your face as you carry out the work helps.

Of course, the broker probably knows the impeller needs attention - that's why he doesn't want to sort it out. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Ok.

If the pump is slowing down like that, chances are that the impellor is not your only problem.

A kn*ckered impellor is motor spinning, but no flow, unless the impellor is so dead that bits have come off and are jamming up the mechanism.

I had exactly the same symptoms (motor slowing to a crawl, plus no flow). Dismantling the macerator revealed a tangled fibrous mess of baby wipes around the metal "cutter" part. While I was there, I replaced the impellor too. Either way, that macerator needs to come apart.

Visiting a pump-out station beforehand is good advice. There will still be some residual "flow" when the pipes come off, but nowhere as near as bad as from a full tank.

Hope this helps.

dv (been there!)
 
Ask Martin to give you a hand, he is probabaly used to poo now having a 3 month old sprog /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif We changed a loo on a Sealine 240 this time last year, took 3 days including changing the pipes because Sealine had glued them into mouldings during installation /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif If you do change pipes we found different qualities at different chandlers, one wouldn't stretch over the fittings another type would soften with hot water.
Good luck.
Pete
 
Oh dear....yet another S29/SC29 with a bog problem.

I'm afraid you will have to take the maserator apart and either replace or repair the impellor.
I also suspect the previous owners have put stuff down they shouldnt which may have clogged the blade and stopped it turning thereby allowing the motor to run and appear to empty but actually doing nothing.....


been there done that got the t-shirt.

the maserator should be high enough to not allow discharge, though it sounds as though the tank is overfull.
where in the bilges is the waste lying? not had a problem with discharge into the bilge, though couldnt empty the bowl...

PM sent

Doug
 
Some interesting observations on macerator toilets here:

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:16 pm Post Subject:
Reply with quote
Peter Parry wrote (on the Subject of the Saniflo)

Warning: people of a sensitive disposition might care to venture no further.

Angus asked:

My recently installed Saniflo does not behave as described in the user manual. On flushing the WC it's supposed to run continuously for about 15 seconds, mine pulses on-off 3 or 4 times for about 2-3 seconds duration. Any ideas?

Peter replied:

Sell the house, failing that give it away, if that doesn't work pay someone to take it or burn it down. To give you a clue - these ghastly instruments of the Devil are French. Add the French and lavatorial engineering - now see why I say get out while you can. Moreover this particular Frenchman was a lunatic with strong Anglophobic tendencies and a bad case of coprophilia.

I am quite sure the designer was also an ex-submariner Frenchman who missed the strangled screams of seamen who had got the valve sequence wrong in the submarines toilet and just been rinsed down with a few gallons of seawater (and the recently donated contents of the bowl).

They break down at the slightest opportunity. The only thing you can actually guarantee about them is that they will break down - very frequently. Basically the only way of maintaining the slightest semblance of serviceability is to impose on pain of repair the same rules as for a small yachts sea toilet - if it hasn't passed through you it doesn't go in the bowl.

They have an interesting design. The motor has poor starting torque and the macerator lots of tiny teeth. Ergo anything that has strands in it catches on the teeth and stops the motor from starting. Things with strands include anything with cotton wool (including cotton wool buds) and anything with cloth. Females in particular must not be allowed anywhere near these devices. If you were unfortunate enough to have the added misery of a sink (oh dear - you were warned) then add hair, strands from woolly pullovers and almost anything else that's at all fibrous.

When they break (which they will - that's an absolute certainty) their endearing characteristic is that you are left with a bowl full of whatever which you have to empty back the way it came and more importantly many feet of 40mm pipe still full of minced whatever. When you disconnect the pipe I'll give you one guess where its going to go. Repairing or unblocking them is the most thoroughly revolting job.

Now to get to specifics - the pulsing is a fault in either installation or the pressure switch. Does it pulse with just the cold water tap running from the sink? The way they work is a low pressure trip switch switches on the motor when the small holding tank is full. This tank remains partially full all the time. If its pulsing either the switch has too low a hysteresis or water isn't getting into it fast enough. The motor should remain on for a few seconds after everything has emptied so that pulsing you are seeing shouldn't be happening.

As the failure rate of these diabolical things is worse than that of a F104 Starfighter I'd suggest you get the installer back (preferably to remove it forever). If it was installed by yourself then self flagellation with a few lengths of barbed wire and a call to the Saniflo people might be in order.

Angus asked:

Also, my system is a Sanitop with the outflow from a washbasin going into the top of the unit. I find that running the tap for a few seconds activates the Saniflo. Is there any way of adjusting the sensitivity of it so that it will only run when a reasonable amount of water has gone into the unit?

To which Peter replied:

No, but if it's oversensitive this might be related to the pulsing you are seeing.

Angus:

I don't see why the washbasin water cant just bypass the cutter/pump internally.

Peter:

Because these horrors are designed to be installed pumping upwards - the raving idiot who designed them thought it would be pretty neat to have something you could stick in a downstairs cloakroom and run the pipe upwards to join the soil stack in the bathroom. If that's how your installation goes cut out the selling the house bit - just burn it now. When it fails there is 10ft of pressurised whatsit just waiting for that final turn on the drainpipe.

The other reason the sink must go through the pump is that the outlet of the thing is at some pressure. Connect the sink a bit downstream and every time you pull the chain the contents of the loo make a pretty little fountain out of the sink plughole (I've seen one plumbed like that - the owner kept a sandbag in the sink on top of the plug).

Some models have an interesting feature - on the top is a reset switch, under the top cover is a screwdriver slot on the top of the motor drive shaft to allow you to clear the (frequent) blockages. However to get the top cover open to get at the drive shaft to free it - you've guessed - you have to disconnect the drain pipe.

How they can be called Saniflow when they are anything but sanitary (as you will soon find out) and rarely flow is beyond me.

As I said - sell the house.

Peter Parry. http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk

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kev

Original Thread here:

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=64181&view=previous
 
Just fit a new macerator pump. Or better still a diaphragm pump, then you'll never have a failed macerator agian. Fitting a new pump is a whole lot nicer than dismantling and repairing a pump imho

I'm surprised the overflow goes to the bilge. I thoughtt he stnadard method (and this is what mine does) is not to have a soearate overflow as such but to use the breather pipe as the overflow. The breather should run to a skin fitting above waterline. I thought that was the normal way to do it. I wouldn't have it going to bilge as it will make the boat smell. You can easily mod this and take it to a skin fitting above the waterline, or if you already have a breahter then just block up the overflow
 
z1ppy, I can't see that installing a second pipe to discharge the toilet direct to sea is the answer without dealing with the holding tank problem as well. Yes it is desirable to have a direct discharge when you have problems with the holding tank but it is antisocial, not to mention illegal in some ports, to discharge toilet waste direct to sea. It's also extremely unpleasant in a crowded anchorage to witness somebody else's brown slick floating past
IMHO you have a simple blockage or macerator problem which should be easy/cheap to sort out. Not pleasant but I bet there's a fair few peeps on this forum who've been there, done it and got the t shirt on this particular problem, me included
 
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