Rafting etiquette

[rwoofer]

I would be interested in peoples views on the situation I found myself in last week.

I was sailing single handed on my Moody 44 and wanted to try Newtown creek. I had done my tidal calcs and knew what kind of water I needed to stay afloat at low tide. I motored around both sides checking depths and possible mooring and anchorage spots and found that a) all visitors buoys were taken, b) there were no clear anchorage areas that have enough depth and swinging room and c) there was only one visitors buoy that appeared appear to be in enough water to stay afloat at low tide.

So I motor up and ask the chap on this mooring whether he would mind if I rafted up (his boat was 30 something long) because I needed the water. He muttered that I was too big, so I said I was more that willing to take the mooring and for him to raft on me. He then muttered that he was waiting for friends. I said he was being a bit ambiguous so asked him directly again if I could more up and he curtly replied "No".

Now by this time it is getting dark and since I'm not insured to sail singlehanded at night I knew I couldn't make anywhere else in time, so I motored around Newtown to check again. Not getting a different result I anchored in the best spot I could find.

I didn't sleep too well as low tide was at 3am and my prediction was that I would go aground. Sure enough I went aground and had a nervous wait whilst all the other boats turned with tide and I didn't cause I was stuck in the mud. Fortunately no collisions happened.

Anyway come the morning this chap that refused the raft up motored off alone - his friends story was obviously made up.

Could I have insisted on a raft up?

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[Talbot]

Would you really have wanted to be secured alongside this plonker?

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[rwoofer]

I just might have had a better sleep....

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[StugeronSteve]

I've not got my almanac handy, but is there no phone number for the NT Harbour Master at Newtown? The buoys may not be rated for a 30+' and a 40' together.

I had a similar but totally unbelievable exchange last year.

Entering Yarmouth the ever helpful man in the Dory tells me to mosey down the green piles and raft to a particular boat, the only un-rafted one. Once within hailing distance I call a cheery greeting and ask if it is ok to come along side. Harridan in cockpit calls back "NO", and informs me that HM has given them this berth, I explain that we have been instructed to raft and then go round again, as a bit of a log jam is starting to form. HM asks why we are not tied up, I explain, he suggests we tell her where to get off and raft anyway, she duly protests, HM now says "go along side the boat ahead" (rafted 3 out), nigh on impossible without a clash of pulpit to pushpit and the inevitable happens, but nothing serious. Harridan's skipper appears from saloon to take lines and help me out of the mess I have made of mooring!, then ties us up as though nothing has happened. Just a moan about needing to be up early in the morning. So I gave them a knock at 0700 as we cast off! Later when I get a chance to make my apologies to the crew of the boat in front, I get a bollocking from lady because the bump disturbed her afternoon nap. All when thoroughly knackered after a long haul back from the west country.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[jhr]

What a complete git.

I guess the little man with his ticket machine had gone home? Because I guess if he'd been around he would have told the guy to behave. In my view, you'd have been entitled to moor up on the basis that the safety of your vessel would otherwise be in doubt and, if he'd started objecting, I'd have been tempted to insist, and to ask him if he fancied being the subject of a claim from your insurers, or worse, if you or your boat had been damaged as a result of his refusal to allow you to raft alongside.

I don't think the National Trust have hard and fast rules about rafting up in Newtown, but anybody who thinks they can moor there, at the busiest time of year, without sharing their mooring is a fool and a plonker.

Grrr!

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[rwoofer]

I looked in my almanac at the time and it say "None" for R/T. I tried on channel 80, but heard nothing also on the telephone number, but got answering machine.

I really did try everything I could think off, but it is difficult to raft up singlehanded when the other person refuses.

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[robp]

I don't think he (or any of us) has sole rights to a bouy in Newtown Creek. I don't know how many is the norm but two boats certainly seems reasonable.

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[Talbot]

I assume that your main concern was at change of tide. Suggest that next time you set your alarm for time of tide change and you will discover that this will allow you to sleep relatively peacefully.

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[l'escargot]

He was within his rights in Newtown. Unless it has changed this year, the harbourmaster there will tell you when you pay for the buoy that it is your choice whether you allow anyone to raft up with you.

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[bruce]

that is the way over here also, raft by permission only, the other boat may not like your fenders etc.

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[rwoofer]

The real question I asked myself is that if you have a real need to raft, and the other person refuses can you just go ahead anyway. Obviously you would take all the precautions to ensure that you are not creating any additional danger to the other vessel.

What could they do?

Or is it simply that you would be the arse...

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[maxi]

No, you cannot insist on rafting to another boat. The Law and marine lore insist that lying alongside another boat is subject to the agreement of the resident (at the time) boat.
That said, most of us readily agree, when asked politeley, to allow other alongside. But there are instances where refusal is highly justified e.g buoys in Braye Harbour in rising weather.

The main problem is caused by rude and ignorant boat owners assuming that they have the right to use others as pontoons, and causing damage for which they never hold up their hands. Moored as I am near a Hamble pub, my recent damage bill has topped £4500, caused by people who are "only staying a little while - going to the pub, why shouldn't I lie here?"

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[StugeronSteve]

Of course who is in the right when the berthing master instructs you to raft and the boat owner refuses. I would have thought that most harbours have a small print clause insisting on rafting where necessary. Imagine Yarmouth, or Weymouth, without rafts.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[JR_Hamble]

Firstly, would you want to tie up to an obvious twat..... Second, I think you should have said, too bad, and rafted anyway, and third, why not name and shame him, so the rest of us can give him a wide berth.

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[Evadne]

I thought that if you refused to follow the HM's instructions (i.e. allow someone to raft up to you) then he could tell you to sling your hook. Especially somewhere like Yarmouth on a Saturday night.

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[bedouin]

I think it is a marginal question in Newtown Creek.

Where sharing of buoys is concerned it is often down to local habit. Some places are strictly one per buoy while others allow half a dozen boats - depending on what the buoy is designed to take.

I believe at Newtown rafting up is allowed at the discretion of the occupier.

Personnally as the owner of a small 32' boat (only about 30' LOD) with low freeboard I get very nervous rafting up to a bigger "AWB" in any situation. Different freeboards, lengths and characteristics can lead to problems. So had I been on the mooring I am not sure whether I would have allowed a 40+ AWB to raft up, whereas I would have been happy to allow a more compatible boat to do so.

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[StugeronSteve]

Exactly, and that is precisely what would have happened, but when knackered, with a ripping tide running, and Yarmouth at it's bulging best, there isn't a lot of time for debate and it was one of those situations where a little help from the receiving boat would make all the difference. My main reason for going around again was to give the wife and kids chance to get ready for a "boarding". The Harridan turned out to be a guest on the boat, so why she took it upon herself to make decisions for the skipper I have no idea

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[JR_Hamble]

It's interesting what you say regarding the legal position, but what would happen if the skipper is not present, when you go alongside?


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[Neraida]

It happened one day in Cowes to us when a Dutch yacht refused to let us come alongside after the HM had asked us to do so. When he saw us moving away and rearranging our fenders he asked why we aren't tied up. Upon our reply he then approached the yacht and explained that he'd either have to let someone raft or go. He moved, onto the outside of a 4 deep raft.

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[Sans Bateau]

Why are people so selfish?

Earlier this year we arrived in Yarmouth very early hours of Sat morning, being the considerate type we did'nt want to raft onto anyone as it would surely wake them. So after motoring around we spotted a space on a pontoon. So we could moor up 'into' the tide I went around, turned and came back against the tide, as I turned another sailing yacht came in, past us and straight onto the pontoon. I sujested that we come alongside for the reasons already explained, the skipper claimed they would be "off in around 4 hours when the tide turns". Faced with no other option we choose to take a very small space between a bowsprit and the aft of two sailing school yachts, were the pontoon is angled, we did it perfectly.

Next morning after a bit of a lay in, we moved to were we were meeting friends, only to see that the selfish B*****d from the night before was still there with no intention of leaving.

The most anoying aspect of this incedent though, was that there was no one around to see our berthing feat. Had it been daytime with everyone on deck it would sure to have been a cock up!

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