Radio Licence: Why?

[freedom44]

Has anyone understood the reason why we have to have a radio licence? It seems a huge raft of bureauracy has been designed to collect £20 off me with for no useful reason. The VHF sets are not even to a same standard even within Europe, so it cannot be a EEC thing. Jobs for the buoys?

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[nordic_ranger]

I've always regarded it as a tax on safety. What do you get for your £20. I'm sure somebody will tell me but convincing me will be another problem.I do have a VHF licence because it's cheaper than paying the fine but as far as I am concerned that is the only reason.

Jim.

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[VicS]

Basically because that's the law, just like having a TV licence or a driving licence. Perhaps one day things will change, after all you don't now need a dog licence or a radio broadcast licence like you oce did and there is now no tax on windows.

There was a long thread on the subject a month or two ago. If you do a search and read all about it we wont have to go through the whole tedious thing again.

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[bigmart]

This topic has been thrashed to death on these fora. Try a search to see some of the arguments, both for & against.

Personally I am in favour of some regulation. I sail mostly in the Solent area & the thought of any Chimpanzee getting hold of a VHF & joining the already overcrowded airwaves terrifies me. I think that £20 is cheap to ensure that there is some order for that hopefully rare occaision when I may need to cry for help.

I know that there are those who disagree with me & a couple of years ago I too thought that the license fee was worthless. Discussions here have helped me to change my mind.

Martin

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[bruce]

$20. won't keep a chimp off the air, if a person is going to misuse the vhf, lack of a lic won't stop him/her. the money should be used to clean up this 'trash' and provide a route for radio checks etc.

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[bigmart]

I disagree with you. The existence of an official document is a great deterrent to the majority of idiots who would otherwise be misusing the airwaves like they do with CB & PMR etc.

Besides all that don't we need a body to co-ordinate the issuing of MMSI numbers Etc.

Martin

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[jimboaw]

Because the sheep tend to obay the shepard and his dogs without question even as they are being led to the slaughter house. Keep this up and we will soon have to apply for a permit at the town hall 2 weeks in advance before we can take our boats out. National Securrity and all that!!

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[[3889]]

How do you contact the coastguard / sar helis?- see the vhf license as paying for 24 hour cover by professional resue services and it suddenly seems v good value. The chit-chat aspect is just a bonus. As for a tax on safety - don't you think you pay for fire/police/ ambulance?
Andy

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[Cornishman]

"we will soon have to apply for a permit at the town hall 2 weeks in advance before we can take our boats out."

Hey, that's not a bad idea! You have to do similar if you want to go river fishing so why not boating?



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[davidhand]

The US does not have licensing and they don't have a problem.

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[DavidofMersea]

I can't believe that Civil Servants can collect £20 for less than £20. It is not case of our £20 paying Coastguards etc., it is a case of general taxation subsidising collection of the £20

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[bigmart]

If you think America has anything to teach us look at Iraq £ the mess both us & the US are in now.

Like I said before. All this has been covered in earlier posts.

I've heard nothing to make me think unregulated radio is anything but a recipe for disaster & my safety is the first casualty.

£20 is cheap for what I get.

Martin

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[MainlySteam]

<<<unregulated radio is anything but a recipe for disaster >>>

Most (maybe all, but not sure about Canada) western nations outside of Europe do not have licencing for voluntary equipped VHF pleasure vessels. It is incorrect to assume that not having licencing means there is no regulation, the inference then being that VHF use becomes like the wild west with no control.

It is quite the opposite in fact, all those licence free nations have regulation, management, and policing of the spectrum and VHF use just as UK does - all that happens is that they do not waste money and time collecting token amounts of money off the users. The collection or non collection of a licence fee has no impact whatsoever on the abuse or otherwise of VHF.

Not having licencing or a fee does, however, encourage smaller boat owners to buy VHF's and that must be an important improvement to safety. In western countries 85-95% of all pleasure vessels are under around 6 m so are small and resistant to costs and it would seem to me that the take up of VHF's on these small vessels is greatly enhanced by the abolishing of licencing.

John

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[Bergman]

Re: Eh?

The revenue from your (and my) radio license is used to pay RTI to collect license fees.

Nothing else

Absolutely nothing else

Not Coastguard

Not SAR helicopters

Not lifeboats

Nothing

In fact the organisation is so efficient that the £20 we pay does not apparently cover the cost of collecting it.

Wonderful system don't you think

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[JonBrooks]

mmmmm!!!!!

Am sure Mike Martin of Ofcom will pick this one up when he get in.

As someone said you have to cause its the law.
Like you can't drink and drive a car!!
You have to have one to watch the TV!

The US boater do not have a licence as such as long as they do not leave US waters.
If they do they then need a ships radio licence which costs about $200 and they have to then carry a class D DSC unit.
This thng about no licence is a bit of a myth really.
Because of where we are in the world it would hard not to stray out of UK waters.

If they deregulate it over here every man and his dog can then buy and use a marine VHF with no method of complaint or enforcment.

So Joe Bloggs Taxi's in Cowes could buy some cheep VHF and run his taxi service on it.

Would you want that?

Yes its not all sweetness and light now but if they deregulate it will be far far worse.

£20 helps get all you info out on the world wide basis.
And its not a huge amount of cash is it really?

If the money is not there for enforcement then the recent case of a taxi firm using VHF would never have got sorted.

And as for the comment re radio checks, that is down to us to sort and the HMGC.
Find another way to test your radio.
I have never asked for a radio check other can easliy find other ways to check their sets.
It is not a licence issue but an education problem.

Well just my thoughts

Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks
Marine Dealer Manager
Icom UK Ltd.
01227 741741

 

[freedom44]

Re: Radio Licence: Why? Not convinced

Ok, I agree that there needs to be some overall control of the VHF radio channels, who can and who cannot use them, but I do not see where the user licence fits into this. I doubt the taxi firm in Cowes had one, so it was not instrumental in their prosecution. Also, I agree with previous points that I am v sure the £20 does not cover the cost of operating the department.

Sorry, still not convinced that anything positive comes from this.

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[JonBrooks]

Re: Radio Licence: Why? Not convinced

Freedom

Would suggest you call Mike Martin at Ofcom 0207 9813130
He will give you excat chapter and verse on where your £20 goes and what it used for.

As I said £20 is not a huge amount of money is it really?
A round of drinks maybe, depending on how many mates you have!

At the end of the day you have to pay it if you don't want to face a £5000 fine and confiscation of your radio and its power supply, oh yeah thats your boat!

But Mike is your best man for this one

Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks
Marine Dealer Manager
Icom UK Ltd.
01227 741741

 

[Mike_Martin]

OK fast answers as i am pretty busy at the mo:

You have to have a Ship Station Radio licence (in the UK known asa Ship Radio Licence or SRL) because the international Radio regulations say so. Yes it is not European legislation it is a United Nations requirement (just a tad larger than the EU). These are the same regulations that require you to have proven competence at a basic level (SRC minimum) before using Marine VHF, this is implemented through the SRL. Prosecution via the Wireless Telegraphy Act licence is about ensuring that the above mentioned regulations are complied with to ensure that this "safety of life" radio service is used properly.

If it was a "tax" a SRL would be £120 not £20!! Not quite sure where the "£20 doesn't cover it" comes from but it does cover the running cost of the system itself. What it didn't cover was the extra education/information work that we did as RA however that seems to be going away now that we are Ofcom.

The comment that" $20 (sic) won't keep a chimp of the air" is correct, however, said "chimp" must meet the requirements of the licence (including qualification etc) or face prosecution. If no licence it will face prosecution anyway.

Correct part of the function of the SRL is to issue vessels with internationally recognised callsigns and MMSI numbers. These and vessel details are registered (and updated) on the international Maritime Mobile Access & Retrieval Service (MARS) database in Geneva which is an international Search & Rescue (SAR) resource however we also give the information direct to the UK Coastguard to speed things up.

Correct the licence fee does NOT pay for SAR resources, however, it supplies an EXTRA one in the form of intel. that HMCG seems to be very fond of.

Incorrect the US does have SRL, this really is an old chestnut that I thought had been weel andtruly roasted. Have a look here for correct info http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html don't forget to check the price!! Upshot is that pleasure vessels that do NOT leave US waters and ONLY have VHF do not require a specific SRL.

I fail to see how not paying £20 per year to have your vessel correctly registered including emergency contact details etc would prevent people buying a VHF radio to enhance their safety at sea. Paying £22 per year for my Rod Licence doesn't prevent me fishing!!

Any more? I'll come back when I can

Mike


<hr width=100% size=1>Team Executive,
Maritime & Aeronautical Team, Ofcom

 

[Bergman]

Re: mmmmm!!!!!

Been down this one so many times before.

And I don't think MM is speaking to me

But one other view perhaps

When you buy a Marine VHF for say £300 you are paying £44.68 VAT

To spend the £300 you will have had to earn £500 (assuming tax @40%)

The chandler you buy it from will pay tax on his profit say £5

These things are invariably made in far East so import duty into EU guess £10

So in total the govnmt have benefited to the amount of around £260

Don't you think that is enough?

And that is my final word on the subject!

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[TheBoatman]

Re: mmmmm!!!!!

I think you have just outlined a good case for shooting Gordon Brown rather than why £20 is a bit much to pay for a licence.
I bet you would go down to the local supermarket and buy a bottle of scotch for £17 quid. Now lets see, cost of scotch 15p, bottle 25p, label and screw top seal 7p, packaging 53p.
Ok we now have our (your) bottle of scotch standing us in at a quid before it crosses the customs/duty line in the factory once across that line and yes there is such a line it becomes worth a hell of a lot more than a quid.
Are you going to stop buying scotch just because?

IMHO the £20 quid is well worth it!!

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