radar vs mast mounting vs goalpost vs wind vane steering?

contessaman

contessaman

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hi all,

sort of a two fold question, but I'm sure there will be plenty of examples out there to give me some real feedback:

mounting of radar: on the mast vs a 'goal post' at the back of the vessel? what are the pros and cons of each method?

off the top of my head I can imagine that range would be improved with it mounted higher up on the mast. also a less obscured view ahead?

Assuming I did opt for a 'goal post' -which would be useful to me for mounting other devices as well as radar, does anyone out there have experience of using a hydrovane steering system with a yacht fitted with a goal post? does it somehow interfere with the airflow and the operation of the hydrovane?

all experiences / advice welcome. thanks in advance

cm
 
A simple pole would be easier than a "goal post". Mast mount gives a little more range, although not a dramatic increase. Pole mount gives reduced sea clutter, and is obviously easier to access if needed.
 
You don't want the radar too high up, as I understand, as that increases the arc that it will describe as the boat pitches and rolls. For the speeds that a sailing yacht travels, I believe that a relatively low mounted radar gives sufficient range anyway. However there is also a school of thought that having the radome at head height may not be best for long term health!

No experience of the Hydrovane myself, but my own windvane doesn't seem terribly sensitive to turbulence. I don't think that something the size of a radome positioned a foot or two away from he wind vane would have much effect, especially if the wind vane was mounted high enough that most of it orojected above the arch.

One thing that has crossed my mind is that, should I ever fit an arch, I could possibly rig up a remote mount for my windvane turrent, and use a bowden cable in place of the existing pushrod to connect it to the rest of the mechanism.
 
Range is probably better with a mast mount, but now that we tend not to use radar for long-range navigation, how much does this matter? I'm not even sure what the maximum range setting on mine is, I never go up there. It's always set on a medium-to-short range for collision avoidance purposes (or sometimes for cross-checking GPS by overlaying the chart, but again only at shortish ranges).

I think I read somewhere that a higher mount also makes it more susceptible to sea clutter, as it's looking down at the sea more. Not sure how much difference this makes in practice.

The main benefit of mast mounting is less junk hung around the stern as visual clutter, windage, and weight in the ends. Once you have a goalpost it can be tempting to hang all kinds of additional stuff off it.

There's no clear answer, and it'll also depend on your boat how much of an encumbrance the goalpost becomes. Do also consider a single pole / mast for the radar, on one quarter, rather than a full goalpost across the whole beam.

Pete
 
thanks for replies thus far folks.

the hydrovane is a must. the other must is radar and I have an active radar detector / alarm to be mounted.

possibly a wind generator. So I guess the question really is - goal post or no goal post? if I go for one then the radar might as well go there then....

or do I just mount the radar and the active Echo (about the size of a toilet roll) on the mast and keep it clean. Not bother with the wind generator and stick with the towed generator?? aaaagggghh decisions decisions!
 
prv said:
The only active transponders I was aware of are the Echomax and the Seame, and they're both considerably bigger than a toilet roll.
Click to expand...

To the best of my knowledge 'toilet roll' is not an ISO unit. Perhaps he meant an industrial one? (The ones in the marina bogs here are about two feet across.)

To the OP, re range: if the target is more than about 10 miles away I'm not much bothered about it. If it's a big ship, its height above horizon will reveal itself early enough wherever your radar is mounted; if it's a typical yacht, it won't show up at even five miles, anyway. Then there's the significant issue of weight carried high, which by and large we don't like, lots. Anything above about 3m from the oggin is fine.
 
prv said:
That's interesting. The only active transponders I was aware of are the Echomax and the Seame, and they're both considerably bigger than a toilet roll. Is this a new one on the market?

Pete
Click to expand...

more of an old discontinued one:

http://www.cruisingpartner.com/cruising-partner/images/stories/le-bateau/equipements/activecho.pdf

I think its been banned actually. Some clown must have used it in the english channel and it confused the pi** out of a few large ships.

However, for my intended single-handed ocean passages I'll gladly accept its monster radar signature and the lovely feature is the below decks alarm that goes off when interrogated by any ships radar. the vendee globe yachts all had them.

but like anything else a bit of common sense and sympathy for heavy shipping is required in its operation. for example using it around busy ports it bound to cause chaos.

so anyway! its about the size of a regulation bog roll! and I need to mount it! this certainly would benefit from a bit of height in its mounting = more warning of approaching ships...
 
contessaman said:
more of an old discontinued one:

http://www.cruisingpartner.com/cruising-partner/images/stories/le-bateau/equipements/activecho.pdf

I think its been banned actually. Some clown must have used it in the english channel and it confused the pi** out of a few large ships.
Click to expand...

Cheers, I hadn't come across that one.

I can't see any problem with using it in the Channel - lots of people do that with Echomax and Seame, it's exactly what they're for. If it has been outlawed, rather than the company simply going out of business, more likely it was some bureaucrat-enraging paperwork anomaly.

A pity it's no longer available - I quite like the idea of an RTE, but as well as the cost I also have nowhere suitable for mounting the long rod shape of the two main competitors. But I could probably find room for a bogroll-sized unit at the masthead.

Pete
 
yeah,

I think its a fair bit more powerful than the others. the last I read of it; you could still buy one in france but you had to sign some sort of disclaimer.

its a pain when you cant obtain things any more. I always wanted a subrella to carry on board in case of impact damage. cant get them anymore though.

maybe I'll come across one at Beaulieu eh?

regards
 
contessaman said:
I always wanted a subrella to carry on board in case of impact damage. cant get them anymore though.
Click to expand...

Have you watched the Crash Test Boat video where they tried it? I don't think they were very impressed.

One of the better instant-response options was actually to just put an ordinary cushion over the hole and stand on it. Obviously not a long-term solution, but it would buy time to think.

A very useful video, it's on youtube somewhere (I think split into two halves) and you should watch it if you haven't.

Pete
 
Harmony came with a radar arch

I hate the look of the thing but came to love it

the radar worked really well, we put the UHF radio aerial on it - also worked well

The radar arch was very handy when it came to climbing back aboard, great for leaning against for fishing, pissing and filming, great for rigging an awning when it was raining and we wanted to use the cockpit - and would be great for the photovoltaics

I would fit another if the boat was right

snaps here

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/sailing-around-britain/harmony-for-sale-10000/


Dylan
 
>radar vs mast mounting vs goalpost vs wind vane steering?

You can't have both on the stern the Hydrovane sail tips over to nearly 90 degrees sometimes and will hit the goal posts probably when it's about 45 degrees making it ineffective. With a pole it would stop the sail working when the pole is downwind. Mount the radar on the mast as most boat do which as you say will give more range, albeit ours was on the mizzen mast.
 
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