Radar target enhancer

[EUXINE_Rival]

The MCA and the boating press advise that a SEE-ME radar target enhancer is makes your vessel most visible on ship radars. The problem is that they should be mounted clear of everything ie at the mast head. Does anyone have any sugestions of how to mount a 50mm diameter tube 400mm high so that it does not obscure the masthead tricolour/allround white navigation lights? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[shmoo]

Something like this?

 

[webcraft]

Most of the ones I have seen have been mounted on the pushpit or on an arch. Ocean rowing boats use them and they don't have masts.

Why does it need to be at the masthead?

 

[pvb]

It doesn't have to be at the masthead. The higher it is, the better the range, but that's unlikely to be a critical factor. If you want it at the masthead, use a stand-off bracket as recommended by Sea-Me.

 

[Talbot]

The biggest problem with see-me is that it only works on the close range nav radar, fine when close to land, but when out in the middle of the channel, most of the merchant fleet will be concentrating on their other radar which is in a different band and does not see the see me. Unfortunately, a number of those ships will have switched off the arpa or even the whole short range radar system. Thus false confidence!

 

[Marsupial]

Talbot while you are correct, as the RYA say there are NO passive relectors that are visible to S band, and according to other sources most sailing yachts are not big enough to show up on S band systems. The S Band argument is pointless.

So we have to rely on the rule that all ships must carry X band and big ones ALSO carry S band. We then have to hope that The sets are working - sea me does let you know this - AND that someone is looking at the display - there is no way of knowing that.

 

[Talbot]

What would I know about s band radar - It is possible that 14 years at sea looking at an S band picture might be relevant!

The biggest problem with S band is the increased sea return, after all it is designed to see the vessels at a longer range, and thats where the problem lies, cause in bad weather, most sailing monos are not in line of sight from the radar until they are into the sea return. But that also holds good for X band.

This is why storm sails need to be orange.

See-me is fine as long as you recognise it is an aid, and that not all ships will see you. Personally, I prefer the concept of looking after myself, rather than reliance on possible actions by others, that is why I prefer to have AIS and to use this to achieve the following

Better knowledge of range of visibility,
Much better situational awareness of those using AIS,
ability to see another vessel and decideif it is one of those being tracked on AIS, or is not on the display,
If it is not on the display, it gets more attention including hand held bearings if the bow aspect looks as if CPA will be within a few miles.

But that is merely my preference, and I recognise that there are other procedures that are more suited to others experience levels and methods of operating.

 

[roger]

AIS utility doubtful?

Sorry to repeat this but it is relevant. We had a lectre from National Coastwatch. They have a station with Radar and AIS. In answer to a question he said his experience was that a lot of the ships that should have AIS were not using it.
Lots of possible reasons:-
1. General bloodymindedness - like most sailrs
2. Lawbreaking ;(dumping rubbish, dumping oil) illegal fishing.
3. Comercial security; competion for harbour berths, good fishing grounds.
Conclusion - Cannot rely on AIS seeing al or nearly all of the big boys.

 

[Talbot]

Re: AIS utility doubtful?

If you actually read what I wrote, it acknowledges that not all ships have ais, but that doesnt prevent it being a usefull tool, just like most other nav tools including radar, see me etc

That definitely doesnt make it a doubtfull tool.

 

[jonjo]

Re: AIS utility doubtful?

[ QUOTE ]
Conclusion - Cannot rely on AIS seeing al or nearly all of the big boys.

[/ QUOTE ]
On a recent week long mid Channel cruise I probably clocked 50+ merchant ships, at least 90% of these showed up on AIS.

[ QUOTE ]
We had a lecter from National Coastwatch.

[/ QUOTE ]
Professional mariners and yachting journalists have never understood the utility of AIS from a yachtsman’s perspective. When the technology first surfaced some technically inept senior figures in the merchant marine world dismissed AIS as an aid for making direct VHF calls via MMSI numbers and this became the received wisdom.

In the meantime leisure yachtsmen have read the Ouzo report and already knew how difficult it is to interpret collision situations with 1 more large ships. They are voting with their wallets, in 2006 the largest electronic installation business in the Solent told me AIS was the most topical new technology on their agenda by virtue of customer demand.

I know I now navigate my yacht more safely due to AIS, I cause less annoyance to large ships and arrive in port earlier because I make fewer and smaller course adjustments when avoiding the big stuff.

 

[Guest]

"The sets are working - sea me does let you know this "

Not really. Sea-me tells you when there are no ships in range that have X radar. You can not tell if a particular ship has it on. It is only a negative confirmation.

So that feature is only useful in mid Ocean. At 10metre Sea-me with a 30metre ship radar that is 1200sq nm of empty Ocean.

 

[pmyatt]

Took me a while to work it out but I think that means nothing within a 20 km radius?

 

[Guest]

Or in other words:

You can only tell a ship has no radar running when you are quite alone in the world.

Otherwise you can not tell one blip of the light from another. You might see 2 flashes but they might not be the 2 boats you can see!

Using binoculars is far more reliable way to see if both/either the scanners are rotating.