Radar reflectors

beneteau_305_553 · 17 Jun 2003

Nav Lights are legally required so why not radar reflectors.

How many yachts out there who do not get seen by other vessels.

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

BrendanS · 17 Jun 2003

They are legally required

Solas V regulations. If it is practicable to carry a radar reflector you have to do so

If you're not aware of this regulation, then you may want to do a little reaearch on the other applicable Solas V regulations such as passage planning. Do a search here on all forums for one year on such things as Solas V, radar reflectors, passage planning. You can use 'and' in the search to cut down on clutter.

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l'escargot · 17 Jun 2003

Don't assume that because you have a radar reflector, you will be seen.

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beneteau_305_553 · 18 Jun 2003

Are they required on all vessels or just on vessels constructed after july 2002?

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

beneteau_305_553 · 18 Jun 2003

But you do stand a lot better chance with one than without and beter than a 25W bulb at the top of the mast

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

l'escargot · 18 Jun 2003

If you go by some recent tests you stand a better chance with a bin liner filled up with scrunched up tin foil. You can look out for them but you can't guarantee they will be looking out for you.

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BrendanS · 18 Jun 2003

All vessels, no matter what age

It's quite simple really. Have a look at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mcga.gov.uk/publications/leaflets/Solas.pdf>http://www.mcga.gov.uk/publications/leaflets/Solas.pdf</A>

Don't forget to have a copy of the life saving signals on board too!

Did you actually do a search and read previous threads as I suggested? There's a wealth of information already posted here.

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BrendanS · 18 Jun 2003

If you do a search on 'radar reflector test' on 'all forums' for the 'past month' you'll find a post from dickh suggesting the following site <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/radar_reflector_test.htm>http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/radar_reflector_test.htm</A>

clarifies what you can and cannot expect from a radar reflector.

Basically, most of them are crap. If they are tested in ideal conditions, some work. When heeled over, most are not performing well, which is not much use on boats at sea as both yachts and motor boats heel to greater or lesser extent when at sea in waves etc. Obvious, but you seem to want it spelt out.

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petery · 18 Jun 2003

A useful link - thanks.

The phrase 'Vessels under 15m should fit the largest reflector you can' is hardly precise.

Is it the largest 'you can'..... afford.

With navigation lights so precisely specified, why on earth don't the regulations give a clear spec on performance so that manufacturers can claim that they meet it. I assume a roll of Bacofoil from Tesco taped on to my back-stay would reflect some signal.

After all size isn't everything ... as I keep telling SWMBO

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BrendanS · 18 Jun 2003

Without going into politics, we have been spared the worst that could have been thrown at us.

Be thankful that we've got away with this wording.

RYA (posssibly MCA) and others fought hard and this is the result. The other option was that all of Solas V was applied as International law in the UK, and most of it is applicable to commercial and coded vessels, not pleasure...it might seem onerous, but I suspect we've got off lightly.

See here <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=RYA140103&Number=296084&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=365&part=>http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=RYA140103&Number=296084&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=365&part=</A>

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billmacfarlane · 18 Jun 2003

There was a discussion about this on Scuttlebutt a couple of weeks back when some yachts came back in a thick fog. The common concensus of opinion seems to be that don't rely on a radar reflector as a means of being seen. It's far more important that you can see them.

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beneteau_305_553 · 19 Jun 2003

Brendan

thanks for your links.

I went to http://www.mcagency.org.uk/publications/SITE/safetyofnavigation/
regulation 19 covers reflectors but it seems that the requiremnt only applies to boats built after 1 July 2002.

The boat on page 2 of the MCA leaflet doesn't seem to have a radar reflector !!!

I tried the search as suggested but didn't get any other threads except this one
if you have any other links I would be interested to read them.

thanks

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

BrendanS · 19 Jun 2003

brianhumber · 19 Jun 2003

Quite a lot, came back from France the other week using radar 50% of yachts did not appear on the radar. All big ships had big clear echos. We kept well out of the way. Biggest consideration was the fast cats, when dead astern they could be heard 20 mins away but at 40 knots in far less than 5 miles vis they were only vis for a few minutes.

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beneteau_305_553 · 19 Jun 2003

Brendan

thanks for your reply

I went to http://www.mcagency.org.uk/publications/SITE/safetyofnavigation/

the wording ii regulation 19 is

.1 Ships constructed on or after 1 July 2002 shall be fitted with navigational systems and equipment which will fulfil the requirements prescribed in paragraphs 2.1 to 2.9
1.2 Ships constructed before 1 July 2002 shall:
1.2.1 subject to the provisions of paragraphs 1.2.2 and 1.2.3, unless they comply fully with this regulation, continue to be fitted with equipment which fulfils the requirements prescribed in regulations V/11, V/12 and V/20 of the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, 1974 in force prior to 1 July 2002;

So I think it applies only to vessels built after 1 july 2002 ?

I did look at the MCA leaflet after your post. Has the motor boat in the photo a radar reflector?

In my experience I have always got a signal from a radar reflector with my furuno 1522 but have had 3 occasions where yachts without them have been invisible.

Lets give the comercial ships a chance to see us!

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

BrendanS · 19 Jun 2003

Reading through it all again, it's certainly not clear. It does appear to only apply to new vessels, though the guidance notes say all pleasure vessels

I've sent off an email to MCA asking for clarification. If it does only apply to new vessels, it goes against the leaflets they've published, and all the guidance that has been provided by MCA and RYA.

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BrendanS · 3 Jul 2003

Re:Official response

Well I've received a reply. Seems the MCA and RYA etc have been the teensiest misleading about radar reflector requirements. The Solas regulations on radar reflectors only legally require them on boats built after the regulations came into effect. Here's the response:

----------------------------------------------------

I am contacting you in reply to your email to our infoLine dated 19 June concerning radar reflectors, our leaflet and SOLAS Chapter V. I apologize for the delay in getting back to you but this query has only recently been passed to me.

You are correct in saying that the revised SOLAS Chapter V Regulations state that only new vessels should carry radar reflectors. At the time the MCA leaflet was produced it was felt that the advise that the agency should be giving out to the public should state that all pleasure vessels wherever possible should try to fit radar reflectors. This has not changed, so while there is no legal requirement for vessels built before 1 July 2002 to fit radar reflectors the advice from the MCA is that they should fit a reflector if at all possible.

I apologize for any confusion that the wording in the leaflet may have caused, and hope that this has answered your query. If you have any further questions on this point or any other queries on radio or navigation please do not hesitate to contact me

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DeeGee · 4 Jul 2003

Oops! -) nm

*

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

beneteau_305_553 · 4 Jul 2003

Re:Official response

Thanks Brendan.

It seems that our British authorities have gone overboard in their reaction to the regulations. I suppose all the other requirements of Solas V also do not apply to boats built prior to 1 July 2002.

However I still think it should be a legal requirement for radar reflectors on any vessel more than 2 miles off shore.

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

BrendanS · 5 Jul 2003

Re:Official response

Radar reflectors are only going to be carried if there is any confidence in their effectiveness. See the alternative thread in scuttlebutt, Andrew has pretty much said that a new comparison will feature in an article in the future

These forums throw many things into light, and I'm starting to be impressed at how many follow through into the ybw magazines. Have a look at the threads over the past year, and then have a look at the magazines. Many issues talked about here do end up in print

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