ToMo
New member
If a boat has radar installed is there much value in adding a reflector?.....if yes should the reflector be hoisted above or below the mast fitted radome?
TôMö
TôMö
RADAR REFLECTOR
- Thread starter ToMo
- Start date
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Yes - I have a radar fitted, and am surprised how invisible yachts WITHOUT a reflector are especially when heading striaght for you. When they come abeam of you you finnaly see them. From observations in the solent - in clear weather, those with a reflector were much more visible than those without. Height wise - halfway up the mast should do.
JEG
Member
Do you know whether the hull/superstructure material makes any difference to the signal?
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Glassfibre does not reflect well - steel and aluminium reflect well so might not need a reflector
G
Guest
Guest
Having a radar doesn't make you visible to other boats. Your reflector should be either above or below (usually above) your own radar, not on the same horizontal plane as it will then act as a block for your own radar.
Since fitting my radar I've been impressed with how well boats with the "blipper" type reflectors show up. I'll definitely be fitting one when the boat comes out over winter.
Regards,
Peter
http://www.mistressofmourne.com
Since fitting my radar I've been impressed with how well boats with the "blipper" type reflectors show up. I'll definitely be fitting one when the boat comes out over winter.
Regards,
Peter
http://www.mistressofmourne.com
escape
New member
There was an article in PBO (i think) a few months back exploring the use of aluminium foil as a lining to a hunter.
trials involved two identical boats except for the foil and niether had a reflector.the results indicated the foil lined boat rather than providing a good reflection had become a 'stealth' yacht whilst the one with no reflector gave consistantly good reflections.
perhaps we could sell the foil idea to the navy?
trials involved two identical boats except for the foil and niether had a reflector.the results indicated the foil lined boat rather than providing a good reflection had become a 'stealth' yacht whilst the one with no reflector gave consistantly good reflections.
perhaps we could sell the foil idea to the navy?
Rob_Webb
Active member
What is a 'blipper' type reflector? I haven't got one at all and am interested in fitting the best performer.
Thanks
Rob
Thanks
Rob
gtmoore
New member
Do you have any experience with detecting the 'active' radar reflectors such as the Sea-me. Seems like an excellent idea if it is actually as good as advertised.
G
Guest
Guest
Although I do not have an active radar reflector fitted, a fellow Nic 32 owner does. I'm sure he won't mind me passing on his findings.
Sea-me active reflector temporarily fitted to pushpit (I think). He conducted a test with Humber VTS. When switched on Humber VTS said he was tracking well on their radar. When switched off they had no return. Their verdict apparently was money well spent.
I believe he intends to fit the radar aloft permanently.
Hope this of use to you.
Sea-me active reflector temporarily fitted to pushpit (I think). He conducted a test with Humber VTS. When switched on Humber VTS said he was tracking well on their radar. When switched off they had no return. Their verdict apparently was money well spent.
I believe he intends to fit the radar aloft permanently.
Hope this of use to you.
Chris_Stannard
New member
Be aware that the Solas requirements are that all craft should carry a radar reflector and that this is a legal requirement from the 1st of July this year. There is no doubt that refectors will enhance your image to make you visible to other yachts when it is fairly calm, but do not expect them to make you visible to merchant ships when it is rough, you will disappear in the ground wave before they can see your echo. My own answer is to avoid merchant ships even when it is my right of way in theory.
Chris Stannard
Chris Stannard
ToMo
New member
Thanks to everyone for the responses....maybe a good case for an PBO class test?
TôMö
TôMö
G
Guest
Guest
I was thinking of the Firdell Blipper or Echomax type reflectors, the ones that look like a small torpedo three quarters of the way up the mast.
The Echomax is on sale for around 125ukp with free mast brackets in a few chandlers at the moment. I'm going to wait for the boat show to buy one though.
Regards,
Peter
http://www.mistressofmourne.com
The Echomax is on sale for around 125ukp with free mast brackets in a few chandlers at the moment. I'm going to wait for the boat show to buy one though.
Regards,
Peter
http://www.mistressofmourne.com
G
Guest
Guest
Hard to tell if a boat is using one as they're not easily visible.
Not exactly cheap either, depends how much better they are than a passive type, especially if your power has gone down for some reason!!
Regards,
Peter
http://www.mistressofmourne.com
Not exactly cheap either, depends how much better they are than a passive type, especially if your power has gone down for some reason!!
Regards,
Peter
http://www.mistressofmourne.com
brian_neale
New member
I thought that PBO had done a radar reflector test recently - or maybe I saw it when filing old copies recently? As I remember, they were so surprised by the results that later installments of the articles were delayed while they reran the tests. None of the reflectors were particularly good, mainly because of holes in the reflector coverage (max echo was often well above the standard, but as the reflector turned it virtually disappeared at some angles). The least bad were the Blipper-like reflectors; some tested were little better than the "PBO Mk I" - a plastic dustbin sack stuffed with crumpled foil! The results of these tests, combined with comments in this forum, has led me to fit radar to my new boat...
homa
Member
As a merchant seafarer and yachtie
I agree with chris stannard.
The hardest thing for the merchant ship is seeing a small boat. visually or by radar. there is no doubt in my experience (20yrs at sea) is that you must buy the best reflector you can buy. the blipper (sausage shaped) reflector seems to be the best passive reflector. An active one is obviously the ultimate. (though current drain on batteries is a minus factor).
In choppy conditions any small boat will be obscured by the waves (sea clutter), and may only show on random sweeps of a radar.
I would say second to a good reflector is make sure your lights are on at ALL times during poor vis & darkness. You would be surprised to learn how many boats we come up on at 20+ kts that have their lights off only to switch them on at the last moment. I've come up on yachts before and identified them only by the glow of their compass light or interior cabin light, it's frighteneing.
During the day I would also say if you are motoring in a shipping lane hoist a sail, it not only steadies the yacht but helps us to see you. (White hull & white caps look the same).
Must dash, we're sailing in 5 mins.
homa
I agree with chris stannard.
The hardest thing for the merchant ship is seeing a small boat. visually or by radar. there is no doubt in my experience (20yrs at sea) is that you must buy the best reflector you can buy. the blipper (sausage shaped) reflector seems to be the best passive reflector. An active one is obviously the ultimate. (though current drain on batteries is a minus factor).
In choppy conditions any small boat will be obscured by the waves (sea clutter), and may only show on random sweeps of a radar.
I would say second to a good reflector is make sure your lights are on at ALL times during poor vis & darkness. You would be surprised to learn how many boats we come up on at 20+ kts that have their lights off only to switch them on at the last moment. I've come up on yachts before and identified them only by the glow of their compass light or interior cabin light, it's frighteneing.
During the day I would also say if you are motoring in a shipping lane hoist a sail, it not only steadies the yacht but helps us to see you. (White hull & white caps look the same).
Must dash, we're sailing in 5 mins.
homa
charles_reed
Active member
I've always worn a radar reflector as well as having a radar.
Most conventional wisdom urges one to have the rader reflector as high as possible - in fact I'd suggest that's counterproductive in a seaway as the damn thing is dodging about so much as to make it almost impossible as a target. The same goes for a masthead light.
Truth be told it's almost impossible in a seaway for a ship to make out a small yacht so the onus has to be on the yachtie to take avoiding action - I'm always pleasantly surprised when a ship has spotted me (far more likely in the Atlantic than the Med)
Most conventional wisdom urges one to have the rader reflector as high as possible - in fact I'd suggest that's counterproductive in a seaway as the damn thing is dodging about so much as to make it almost impossible as a target. The same goes for a masthead light.
Truth be told it's almost impossible in a seaway for a ship to make out a small yacht so the onus has to be on the yachtie to take avoiding action - I'm always pleasantly surprised when a ship has spotted me (far more likely in the Atlantic than the Med)
G
Guest
Guest
The 2 fulfill entirely different functions. A radar helps you to see the other guy whilst a reflector attempts to help you to fulfill your obligation to be visible to the other guy in exactly the same way as lights do. These days ships treat radar as their main vision tool - there are not to many eyeballs scanning the horizon - and so it is important that you take the best steps you can to improve the radar return from your boat. Passive reflectors are one way. The BS standard talks about 4m height but I think the higher the better provided that you keep an eye on your angle of vanishing stability when making the decision. Wheteher it is above or below the radome is irrelevant. The other approach is to use an active Radar Target Enhancer. These are very light and can easily go at the masthead.
dickh
New member
As PTK says the Firdell Blipper or Echomax seem to come out best overall in tests, some others are useless, especially the small 2" dia. x 15" long type that are hoisted on a flag halliard... There is a US website that tests them all - see www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/radar_reflector_test.htm
dickh
I'd rather be sailing...
dickh
I'd rather be sailing...