Radar - Monochrome or colour?

[BlueSkyNick]

I am considering a revamp of our electronics during the winter months and weighing up the pros and cons, of various options. Bear in mind that most of the time we will be in the Solent and approaches, possible trip to the west country, and crossing the channel maybe 2 or 3 times a year. I don't want to go over the top on expenditure, installation hassle, use of space, power etc.

I am now convinced, thanks to tome, that the ICS Nav6+ is worthwhile as a navtex receiver, plus its repeater and logging benefits assuming I replace the obsolete speed and depth instruments.

There seems to be a general consensus that radar is necessary for channel crossings - some people won't go without it. Part of me says that if I go to the expense of a radar then I might as well get a combined plotter. Another part of me says I don't need a plotter with a reasonable GPS already on board, and the small number of times I will be visiting places I don't know, in limited vis etc.

So I could just get a simple radar. In which case, what is the benefit of a colour display at an extra several hundred quid? Will a simple monochrome unit suffice for the limited amount of time it will be used in anger?

All constructive feedback gratefully received


<hr width=100% size=1>I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

 

[pandroid]

Yes. But if you want to combine it with a plotter, or want to put it in the cockpit, go for colour. In the 2 years we've had our combined unit, I've used the plotter continously, and the radar twice - mind you, I wouldn't have ventured out on those occasions without it.

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[iangrant]

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.survivalsafety.com/>http://www.survivalsafety.com/</A> is a lot cheaper than a radar set and makes the channel a safer place..

Ian



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[robp]

After several years of winging it, I wouldn't want to be without radar now. Don't underestimate the usefullness of radar as a navigation tool too. Colour also helps those who are new to radar. The plotter/radar combined is superb, if expensive. If you're on watch alone, it will help you stay on the helm.

Rob

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[vyv_cox]

I think the colour radar plot is easier to read than the monochrome, although the information is presumably identical. The big difference is in the supporting windows, drop-down boxes and on-screen displays, which I would assume could be pretty difficult to follow in monochrome.

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[ParaHandy]

BigNick
if only used as a radar then monochrome ... if chartplotter, then colour but i'd look very carefully at how much (if any) additional power a colour one consumes. I think if you had a plotter you might have it switched on permanently? ra missus would be michty pleased at knowing, at a glance, whur she's going ........

t'other consideration with binnacle/wheel mounted (ie outside) is just how good the weather protection is. if a slop of sea water can get the engine alarm squawking ... i think i would provide a cover for the whole lot when not in use .....

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[bedouin]

I wouldn't go as far as to say there was a general consensus that radar is necessary for channel crossings.

I would guess that less than half the boats that cross the channel have radar.

IMHO an RTE is more important than Radar itself. I'm not so sure about those CARD devices, they might give you a warning that you are about to be hit but they have very simple direction indication capabilities so I don't know how much use they are for active collision avoidance

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[iangrant]

The range of the CARD is about 5-8km. The direction can be narrowed down to about 45 degrees - certainly on the last channel crossing we heard the beep - looked at the box and then concentrated at looking right ot left.. The fact that it beeps is enough for me to look sharper!
In fog I reckon you could slow down on a "beam beep" and watch the beep come from the front then carry on..
We didn't bother switching on the radar..

Ian

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[bedouin]

Is the sensitivity adjustable then?

I think the trouble would be knowing what to do if you had a constant echo on say the bow because it can give no indication of the ship's heading.

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[tjc]

I went through this last year. looked at at mega expensive combination units and discounted those on the basis that if it goes wrong they both go. Bought a JRC radar (superb) and a Navman 5600 colour plotter (equally superb).

How many times is radar used after the initial new toy novelty has worn off. Not often I suspect certainly not in my case anyway

I have used a colour radar and frankly found it a bit confusing wheras b/w is really quite easy.


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[tony_brighton]

We've just been through the same decision making - decided on a Furuno 1623 (mono) for the times when we cross the channel (2-3 times per year). For some reason its always foggy! Anyway, we dont intend to use it often - only as collision avoidance. Hence the cheapest set was our choice.

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[iangrant]

Yes you can adjust the sensitivity, like a squelch knob.

If I had a constant on the bow I'd turn to starboard and wait (and hope) that the indicator light went onto a 45 deg reading - i.e up vert 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock together..
It is surprising how quick it is to learn to "read" the thing.

Very easy, if nothing else a good cheap alarm that draws little current.

Ian



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[Fill]

Just make sure that it complies with the latest legislation, due in force in a year or 3 to limit the interference that the transmitter can create (on mobile phones I think).

Most (if not all) new radars should be compliant by now, but worth asking the question.

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[LadyInBed]

You must start the process knowing what you want from the kit.
If you want all the bells and whistles, then narrow beam, colour and plotter.
If you want to just have the piece of mind that in thick fog, you can cross the shipping lanes, get down the Little Russel or follow buoys down a channel, then a mono JRC 1000 will do the job more than adequately.


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[StephenW]

Agree with another members message - JRC 1500 works well, has a relatively narrow beam width (= good accuracy)and can be bought for less than £1000

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[PeterGibbs]

Re: Radar - KISS

For the sailing you describe, you may use the radar no more than 2-3 occasions each season. But when you need it, boy does it punch its weight. Beats plotters into a mud bank on just about every count, for obvious reasons.

My persepctive is that for typical cruising under any kind of demanding conditions the skipper needs key data input on converging vessels but in a simple and uncluttered form. Cycling between various screens is going to degrade this requirement to concentrate on the vitals. Le me explain.

When the vis is down and the radar is on you will be playing the EBL's and working out how best to deal with converging targets. I advise to go for the best and clearest screen you can to deal with such circumstances. A small coarse LED screen is probably not the best investment.

Given the size of marine radar screens and the likely on board conditons when vis is poor (especially at night), anything that diminishes the workability of the radar in its purest functions is to be avoided. Ever watched a commercial crew use radar on the bridge at sea? You too will be concentrating all your attention on the targets and will have no inclination to switch off your "eyes" in favour of what you can easily read on your GPS out of the conrner of your eye. KISS - every time.

Good luck,

Peter GIbbs

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[BlueSkyNick]

Thanks for all the answers to this one. Spent 2 hours in Greenham Regis in Lymington on Friday afternoon - felt very comfortable with the open and honest discussion, no pushy sales talk.

Haven't made a commitment yet, but kind of decided the way forward, which is to go for Raymarine Monochrome standalone radar. Can't afford full plotter yet, and not convinced I need it. However, at a later date I can buy the combined unit and simply swap the display over.

Plan to mount the display on top of the cabin, under the spray hood. ie easy to see in the cockpit but protected from elements and physical damage. It can be disconnected and stowed below when not needed.

Equivalent Furuno unit is quite a bit cheaper, but to upgrade to a combined plotter at a later date requires extensive alterations to radar installation.

Also decided on ST60 replacement instruments, connected into ICS Nav6+.

<hr width=100% size=1>I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

 

[Oldhand]

Am glad to see Andy put you on the right track. I am very happy with the stand-alone Raytheon/Raynarine unit and see no need for colour. As for colour plotters, save your money and go down the Yeoman route.

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[BrendanChandler]

Thank you for pointing me to this discussion Nick.

What did you finally decide?

Brendan

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[BlueSkyNick]

It all comes down to how much you are prepared to spend versus how much you intend to use it.

I still haven't made a final decision because

- we agreed to share a charter in Croatia next summer for our main holiday, instead of use our own boat
- SWMBO demanded a new front door and carpet for the hallway
- my accountant completed our tax returns !

So I couldn't justify the costs versus the benefit at the current time.

My research told me that a
- Monochrome is OK, but no use in bright light. I didn't think this was relevant but have learned that it is, if you want to practice use of the radar in reasonable weater or use it to help navigation.
- a JRC1500 is a good low cost unit, if you just want the basic minimum but the dealers didn't speak very highly of them
- Furuno monochrome units are slighlty cheaper than Raymarine, but more expensive to upgrade at a later date.
- I preferred the Raymarine colour, but for the extra money its more worthwhile to go a further still, and buy a combined radar/plotter.

If I could buy the combined unit outright, I would. Otherwise I would buy a Raymarine monochrome, which can easily be swapped for a colour radar/plotter at a later date. This means sacrificing the cost of the mono unit, but it could be kept as an emergency spare. I am told by one dealer that many people have done this, because they were disappointed with the mono, so it might be possible to buy a second hand unit quite cheaply, and just buy a brand new radome.

Then there is a whole different discussion about where to mount it - binnacle, cabin top under spray hood, chart table, etc. This also affects which unit you choose to buy, and depends very much on your boat design and personal preference.

Hope this all helps


<hr width=100% size=1>People who think they know it all are very annoying to those of us that do.