radar in the cockpit

[tcm]

here's the "other discussion" robin promised. The issue is that robin doesnae like radar in the cockpit unless it's a repeater for another one below. Is this a weather thing? Or what?

Myself, i like radar (and green eggs, and ham) anywhere. But i especially like radar right slap bang in front of the helm or very near the helm. Jimi has this on his boat, i think, but dunno if repeater below.

Partly, I quite like something on the radar anyway, if pos. So, if appropriate, i prefer to seeing something on the radar (and if you run parallel to the shipping lanes, there's always something there) rather *nothing at all* on the radar which is wot happened overnite thru biscay cos with "nothing" i daren't touch a thing after while cos has it given up or what? Having something on screen all the time of course means you need to keep an eye on it, and i think that this means you need it at the helm. imho

Mobos with a flybridge whave a repeater, usually, but single- level sportscruisers only have one radar on the dash. ok, i do axshuilly have another but it is right next dorr to the first, usually used as a chartplotter cept if it's ded dark and mainly want the radar on with all eyes on it.

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[tome]

Each to his own, but I prefer radar below for several reasons:

1) I don't want the helm glued to a screen
2) I can keep an eye on it when off-watch or at the nav station
3) It's better protected from accidental damage or robbers

Having said that, I can view the radar through an opening port in the cockpit when sheltering under the sprayhood so feel I have the best of both worlds.

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[capricorn]

I'll be installing mine this winter and my current plan is to mount it on a swingarm at the chart table so that it can be swung into the companionway when needed at the helm.

Seems to have the advantages of both schools of thought. Only problem I can see is that it will obstruct access to aft cabin when swung out and potentially exposed to damage in a seaway.

Any obvious drwbacks I haven't thought of ?

Still researching source for swingarm. Westamrine do something suitable at a price but I'm also considering using a PC monitor mounting arm.

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[Talbot]

If you only have one display, then mount in the cockpit where it can be seen from the helm. Down below is no use when short handed, as you will def need to change range scales etc. Thats where mine is going, right next to the plotter. You should never be glued to any instrument, as the best method of spotting a problem is still normally the Mk 1 eyeball. The only time I would be concentrating up to 50% of my effort on the radar would be in thick fog. If my boat was faster, I would have someone spending 100% time on the radar in very thick fog - been there and done that 27 kts through a large fishing fleet at 50m visibility in a 2000 ton grey war canoe.

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[Peppermint]

Re: You can

keep all of the crew together, on deck, if it's foggy.

I would prefer to be skippering on deck with a radar I can see than split the responsibility. If I'm likely to be rundown I like my crew where I can see them too.

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[ChrisE]

As Tom says we each have our own systems. For what its worth my own view is this turns upon whether the navigator is also the helm.

When we sail Mrs E does the steering bit and I do the where to go bit. So radar down below and I bark commands up to the helm. And I think that I prefer it by the nav table so that I can plot tracks when in v low viz. When Mrs E is asleep on night watches I don't mind popping up and down to check whats happening.

The only time I have been unsettled by this arrangement was when I couldhear engine noise in thick fog at night and could not see an image on radar, turned out to be a Condor Cat working it way up our radar blindspot behind us

That said we are putting Raymarine HSB2 system this winter with a repeater on the helm. This however is primarily for chartplotter so that we can do blind navving in low viz but I'll be interested to see if its presence changes the way we do things.

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[jamesjermain]

Having recently crossed Biscay on a boat with radar/plotters mounted both the wheel binnacle with and at the chart table, I would say this:

if you can afford it have the set-up we had.

If you only have one radar display, have it in the cockpit but don't turn it on unless you need it. I found it 1) very distracting and 2) even switched to 'night' configuration, did nothing to improve my night vision.

If I wanted a combined plotter/radar and could afford only one, I would be in a bit of a quandry. I would want the plotter at the chart table and the radar at the wheel but only on when needed - aaaaahhh!

In fact, I might well be faced with the latter scenario for next season and I have not yet decided what is best so I will follow this thread with particular interest.

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[tcm]

Re: \"only on when needed\"

this is an interesting phrase. I have a slightly oversized mobo, and the radar is a twirly thing, and a bit wary of (if anything happened) anywitness saying aha didn't have the radar on, so that's not very good, praps failing to use the equipment available etc.

praps there's also an issue of using radar "quite a lot" even when clear sunny days to keep the whirly thing up top working as it should rather than hardly used and hence seizes up, altho this could be complete rubbish, dunno.

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Mine is by the chart table, but can be seen from the helm, although it is at a distance just a midge too far to be comfortable not to pop up and down occasionally.

I too have thought about mounting at the helm, but a couple of weeks ago I think I changed my mind. We were coming home and approaching the fairway, about 2 miles out. Pot markers started appearing, it was dark but a full moon so could have been worse.

I ended up switching everything off (lights) at the helm as it was killing my night vision. In the end I had only the radar illumination on but very low (why white?). I left the radar on as it sometimes will return a target from a pot marker, though this night F3-4 I think it was just too bouncy to pick them out. Although, that said, maybe if the radar was at the helm I wouldn't have to have it as bright as I feel necessary when it is down below.

Maybe someone can enlighten me?

My sounder has a white light, the plotter green and radar white. The only ones correct are the nasa instruments with 7 levels of red. I think for times you want the radar (night) it might not be such a great idea to have the white glow right in front of your eyes. I often wonder how MOBO's cope with their aircraft type cockpits completely surrounding their path of vision.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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[tome]

I will have to replace our radar sometime in the next year or so as it's an ageing model and the magnetron shows signs of decaying. I would like to have a twin setup, but would put the helm screen under the sprayhood with the instruments rather than on the binnacle. This way, at least it's not in my face. If I decide to go for a single screen, it will be below but more visible at the helm. We operate much as Chris describes.

Two things to bear in mind (IMO). First, I would like MARPA as this will help short-handed. Second, AIS is now coming to the maket and I don't want to buy until I see how Raytheon et al will integrate this into their existing units.

So I'll nurse my existing system a season or so before replacing.

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[jamesjermain]

Re: \"only on when needed\"

I realised when I re-read my post that 'only when it was needed might lead to discussion but I don't think a rotating antenna will seriously degrade through lack of use.

I consider radar need not be on during the day in clear visibility and at night outside shipping lanes and in clear visibility. Even in a shipping lane I would not feel the need to use radar in good visibility unless I was being set upon by a number of ships on closing bearings and more I needed as much information as possihle to pot a suitable avoidance course. I would have it on though, for reassurance and 'just in case'.

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[robp]

I had mine "terminated" at the helm and have never regretted it. I was going to have terminations up and down but didn't finish the down bit yet. I made it so that I unclip a secondary stainless hoop and store it below for security. I since decided that it would be best on the helm but swinging round so I can see it when I'm hiding under the spray hood/windscreen on auto. I don't know about other makes but my Raymarine CRC-72 or whatever it's called dims down to a very sensible night time light and is no problem in that respect. So Jools - you can see lob pots.

Only other downside I have is that the terminations need to be covered and out of the weather. If I don't do that they start to go green!

Rob

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[robp]

Re: Condor

Slightly off the subject. But the only time I wondered if the radar was working, was when going into St Peter Port in fog. I could hear very big engines and posted lookouts on either side of the boat whilst I watched the screen. I could see a trail of yachts following us in and all the bouys around us that were charted - plus of course hear some of them. But nothing ahead moving. Then out of the fog came Condor moving very slowly as they obviously had us on screen! Still nothing on my screen and they were by this time a cable or so off our port side. Must have been Stealth shaped!!

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[ChrisE]

Re: Condor

Yes, fairly scary, it is the only time I have got the shipscarer (a battersea power station powered spotlight) out to shine on the sails. Although, as you point out and as I have seen for myself the Condors have good radar and can see us a long way before we can see them.

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[tcm]

Re: mobo

vast majority of mobos simply don't go out at night - most don't have ranghe of more than ten hours so may as well run in daylight anyway. A planing boat is driven in the same way as a car - there's no nipping down to see the chart, it's game on from engines on to engines off. Those who *do* go out at night would either stand up from controls face above a screen if on visual for short trip at displacement speeds around a coast and praps post a lookout at the bow for pots OR go gently out 10 or 20 + miles out to sea away from pots and run at planing speeds purely from the radar.

our radar (furubno) can be turned down so far that it is very dim indeed. Trub is, there's a bit of a panic next day when gasp the screen is busted, oops no it isn't....








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[robp]

Re: mobo

<<Trub is, there's a bit of a panic next day when gasp the screen is busted, oops no it isn't.... >>

Yes that is something I hope Raymarine have addressed since mine. Next day in bright sunlight, can't find the bloody softkey route to the brightness control!!

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[pessimist]

We have one screen but two sets of connectors - one under the sprayhood and one at the chart table. This gives the bes of both worlds. I like to use the radar at night (I have lousy night vision) SWMBO has good night vision and prefers to helm with the radar out of the way. In poor vis we use it under the spray hood and both stay on deck if poss.

<hr width=100% size=1>A pessimist is an optimist in full possession of the facts

 

[duncan]

Re: mobo exception.....

having plotters, sounders, radar and the like but no autopilot/helm I have no practical option other than to mount them in the cockpit; which being behind glass(hard top) is rather sensitive to light glares. Minimum settings are fine in conjunction with calm nights and a bit of moon - ie you can still see most things well enough but in poor conditions you tend to use the radar as your eyes (which is sort of why I have it anyway!).
I admit that this is very much coastal jaunts rather than passage making, as tcm alludes, and I do make a point of using the radar during the day at least once a month to 'practice' and get used to the relationship between radar blobs, plotted items and actual hazards.
One thing I would add to james option to turn the radar off is that you are better putting it's cover on it - it is then instantly available as opposed to having to warm up etc. tcm could of course go around with the thingy on the roof revolving and all the covers on if he felt like it /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[tcm]

Re: oops , careful bout covers on

not sure bout other screens, but ours has a little fan, presumably to cool summink, so is it ok with the screen cover onnit?

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[duncan]

Re: oops , careful bout covers on

ah - well spotted...............

don't think mine has but I will now have a look! Main reason I don't think it can care is that it is a water resistant/proof unit but obviously not all are (but would need to be if mounted in most cockpits!)

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif