Racing rules - a bit rusty

wooslehunter

wooslehunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 Oct 2002
Messages
1,960
Location
Hants, UK
Visit site
My boat's slow & suffers from lots more leeway than many. But I have a good handicap though so do club race occasionally.

Here's the scenario. I manage a good start & we're all close hauled on stbd. But the faster boats are overtaking both to windward & to leeward. The closest is to leeward & overtaking, although I'm drifting down on him.

The IRPCS say that even though we're windward boat, the leeward boat should keep clear as it's overtaking. But, this is racing & the rules differ. So the question is: do we have to keep clear?

If so, we cannot tack off since this would put us onto port & into conflict with the stbd tacked boats behind & to windward. The only option is to luff & slow right down until we can go back to close hauled & drop behind & to leeward.

If on the other hand we can keep to our proper course, the leeward faster boat has to free off. He passes us eventually, but we are not penalised & can take advanatge of our good start.
 
Overlapped to Leeward

Rule 17

If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull
lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above
her proper course while they remain on the same tack and over-
lapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails
astern of the other boat. This rule does not apply if the overlap
begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear.

If you get in that position and the other boat points higher than you then
you will have to give way .. He must give you ROOM and OPERTUNITY to
keep clear .. So he cannot just luff up ..

If he does luff up and you do not have time to keep clear and a collision
occures then it will be his fault .. ROOM and OPERTUNITY ..

If you have another boat to windward of you then he cannot force you to
tack into another boat ..

I am sure someone else will be along shortly with another view ..
 
Flaming will probably be along to provide the definitive answer, but Rule 17 will only apply if the overlap is established from clear astern, within 2 lengths to leeward. I can think of at least three situations in which the windward boat would have to luff up and keep clear.

Rule 17 will not apply if the overlap is established from leeward (i.e. leeward boat pointing higher, becomes overlapped when 3 lengths to leeward, continues pointing higher and when she is 2 lengths to leeward she already has a 1/4 length overlap). In this case windward boat will have to keep clear.

Similarly, if the overlap is established by tacking to leeward of the other boat, the windward boat will have to keep clear.

Finally, Rule 17 refers to the leeward boat's proper course. If her course close hauled is higher than windward boat's course, windward boat will have to keep clear.

If windward boat really does have a lot of leeway, there should be a big hole to windward to luff up into.
 
wooslehunter said:
Here's the scenario. I manage a good start
Click to expand...

Please advise how :o Not yet achieved this.


wooslehunter said:
& we're all close hauled on stbd. But the faster boats are overtaking both to windward & to leeward. The closest is to leeward & overtaking, although I'm drifting down on him.

The IRPCS say that even though we're windward boat, the leeward boat should keep clear as it's overtaking. But, this is racing & the rules differ. .
Click to expand...

Colregs still applies when racing provided its not racing in a lake. No-one has the ability to suspend the law though you might sometimes think that plod has. So it would be interesting to see how the courts ruled in a collison.

Anyway, putting that legalistic argument to one side and assuming you are not at a mark:-

Rule 11 says you have to keep clear of the leeward boat. Rule 17 stops him pointing higher than he needs to get to the mark but if his proper course to the mark is higher than you can point then you have to drop back and go under his stern. Or tack and go under the stern of the windward boat

As far as the boat that is windward to you is concerned, you can luff him though it doesnt sound as if thats within your compass. You have right of way over him but you must initially give him room to keep clear.

To be honest I reckon your best bet is to go behind the boat to leeward. It never pays in a bilgie to try and pinch so you may well gain ground by sailing 5 degrees more off the wind than you can.
 
jason -and the arguenauts said:
Rule 17 stops him pointing higher than he needs to get to the mark but if his proper course to the mark is higher than you can point then you have to drop back and go under his stern.
Click to expand...
Rule 17 only applies in one very specific circumstance. If the overlap is created other than from astern within 2 boatlengths to leeward, the leeward boat is entitled to sail above its proper course.
Although frankly, in the OP's case it probably doesn't matter. Rule 17 probably won't apply, because the "proper course" of other boats is higher than he can sail. So the only rule that applies will probably be Rule 11 - windward boat must keep clear.
 
To the OP - if your boat really is slow and can't point, you would do well to think not just about the start, but what is going to happen in the 3 minutes after the start. No point in winning the start if you are going to get spat out the back with other boats rolling you. Better to look for a lane that will give you clear air in the first few minutes of the race, until things open up a bit. Obviously you can't ignore things like line bias, current etc., but you might want to have a longer term plan than winning the start.
 
Racing rules

Yes all you can do is pinch up and let the leeward boat pass you on that side. It seems unfair but rules are not always suitable to disparate boats. Good on you for having a go and I hope you enjoy it.

The start can be won by any boat with poor performance so yes always try your hardest to get in there and mix it. It is perhaps one of the most challenging aspects of sailing (racing) If it is a true square line start on starboard near the starboard buoy but not so close as to risk being pushed up into it. Get your timing right be agressive and hope for the best. Always being prepared to restart or be pushed up. It is all fun,
go for it.
Olewill a veteren of 25 seasons of racing Sunday afternoons.(about 30 races per year) and yes all the competitors are close friends. And yes less than 3 weeks and it all starts again.
 
wooslehunter said:
My boat's slow & suffers from lots more leeway than many. But I have a good handicap though so do club race occasionally.

Here's the scenario. I manage a good start & we're all close hauled on stbd. But the faster boats are overtaking both to windward & to leeward. The closest is to leeward & overtaking, although I'm drifting down on him.

The IRPCS say that even though we're windward boat, the leeward boat should keep clear as it's overtaking. But, this is racing & the rules differ. So the question is: do we have to keep clear?

If so, we cannot tack off since this would put us onto port & into conflict with the stbd tacked boats behind & to windward. The only option is to luff & slow right down until we can go back to close hauled & drop behind & to leeward.

If on the other hand we can keep to our proper course, the leeward faster boat has to free off. He passes us eventually, but we are not penalised & can take advanatge of our good start.
Click to expand...

The rule 17 stuff quoted by others is technically correct, but a bit of a red herring in my opinion, although it does apply on a beat, in club racing you're so unlikely to venture into 17 teritory on the windward leg I'd ignore it...

This is very simple windward-leward stuff. If there is a boat to leward of you, and you have room above you, you must keep clear. So yes, you do have to keep clear (luff up). As others have said he must give you room and oppertunity to do so, but the poor performance of your craft is no excuse not to keep out of the way. If you have room to tack it is best to, but if not you just have to take your medicine I'm afraid.
I'd second the advice from bbg to think about the start less from the perspective of where you want to be on the line, and more from where you want to go up the first beat.
For example I recently had to modify my starting technique for Torbay week as we were starting with a TP52 and a couple of other biggies. The technique then just became "start where they're not". It sounds like that might have to be your default setting!

As regards the colregs and racing (dons flack jacket) it should be noted that the colregs apply in their exact text between racing boats and NON racing boats. However they are voluntarily overwritten by the racing rules between racing boats. (see the preamble to the rules)
 
William_H said:
If it is a true square line start on starboard near the starboard buoy but not so close as to risk being pushed up into it. Get your timing right be agressive and hope for the best. Always being prepared to restart or be pushed up.
Click to expand...

Is the above correct for non biased start lines? I don't think it is. All boats anywhere on a correct start line have the same distance to sail, relevant to each other, to the windward mark, with no advantage at any other position on the start line.

For a non biased start line, a boat that does not point as high as others gains no advantage by being near the starboard end of the start line, as the boats distance to the windward mark is equal anywhere on the line. This assumes a triangular course, correctly laid.

The slower boat should aim to be on the start line at a position that gives him the best chance of maintaining maximum speed for most of the time. This could be at the port end of the line, thus avoiding luffing scenarios.

The advantage of this strategy is that if the race time is short for any reason he has maximised his handicap opportunity.

If tide or start line bias is favouring one end of the line then its your call on how to maximise your boat speed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The advantage to starting at the starboard end of the line, surely, is that you have no boats to windward of you? If the OP starts at the port end of the line he will have the whole fleet to windward in short order.
 
Starboard end would allow him to tack onto port - into clear air and away from boats that might present the pointing issues.
 
Leonidas said:
That's geat stuff; but how would it apply on a non competing boat that has found herself accidentally in the middle of a regatta? Surely Colregs rule supreme.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

Exactly as I said above. Colregs apply between racing boats and non racing boats. Many cruising boats will very kindly cede their rights when meeting a racing boat, which is always much appreciated, but not required or expected. And is often not wise when meeting a number of racing boats in close proximity.

Starting a race indicates acceptance of the rules, and part of those rules is that the racing rules supercede colregs between boats who are racing.
Note, that doesn't necessarily mean "in the same race".
 
I agree with bbq. No matter how good a start you get you will suffer if faster and bigger boats roll over you to windward and leeward. In a slow boat it is best to maintain momentum and start in clear air away from the rest of the fleet. In my experience faster leeward boats won't waste time luffing you. they jst want to get past as fast as possible. so hold you course until you are called and then act flustered until they get past.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top