Racing question after previous post- luffing up.

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dralex

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The racing post by melody got me thinking. I've done a lot of dinghy racing and a bit of big boat racing and have a quesion I don't know the answer to.

Imagine two boats sailing side by side and the leeward boat gets hit by a gust and rounds up onto the windward boat ( which for arguments sake has a higher ballast ratio and doesn't round up at the same time).

By definition, the windward boat is being luffed and has to get out of the way- is this applicable to racing?
 
yup .... unless the leeward boat has established the overlap from clear astern (ie overtaking) and assumes there is no obstruction to windward of the windward vessel that he has called for water on ...

The give way vessel MUST have adequate time and oppertunity to keep clear ....
 
As I understand it the windward boat has to give way whether the luff is intentional or accidental provided the leeward boat has luffing rights. However, the leeward boat is obliged to give the windward boat reasonably room and opportunity to respond. If it luffs suddenly and uncontrolably into a boat just feet to windward and hits it, I suspect the committee would find against him.
 
Hi Jimi

Scenario 1- level pegging on the same tack from the start line.

Scenario 2- I think Fireball has sort of answered as by definition the leeward boat is also the overtaking boat, therefore ahs to avoid the boat it is overtaking.

I can think of lots of occasions where it would be difficult to define the overtaking boat.
 
[ QUOTE ]
If it luffs suddenly and uncontrolably into a boat just feet to windward and hits it, I suspect the committee would find against him.

[/ QUOTE ]
It depends how they got into that position .... if the windward vessel is overtaking they should keep clear, if they are that close that in involuntary luff from the leeward vessel results in contact then they have not kept clear
 
However they got there and whoever has the rights, if one boat gets hit by a gust and rounds up to hit another then adequate room for the conditions was not being given. In light wind you can get quite close under control, gusty dificult winds may mean that you have to give 3 or 4 times more space to allow for the accidental rounding up.

Fin
 
When I last raced the 'mast abeam' rule still applied. Am I right in saying that the leeward boat now has luffing rights until the windward boat is clear ahead?

'In my day' the leeward boat could luff as fast and hard as it liked and if there was a collision the windward boat was dsq. As I readi to now, the leeward boat has to give the other time to get clear. Am I right?
 
Mast abeam is out of the window now!

Its a big subject that is diff to explain without diagrams.

A good free website for the rules is listed below. Goes from basic to quite advanced. Theres a couple of dubious points but is for free its very good!

Rules


Fin
 
[ QUOTE ]
When I last raced the 'mast abeam' rule still applied. Am I right in saying that the leeward boat now has luffing rights until the windward boat is clear ahead?

[/ QUOTE ]
If the leeward boat has full luffing rights, they can now luff the windward boat to head to wind. However, they might be constrained to luffing no higher than their proper course. "Overtaking boat" has no meaning under the racing rules.

The scenarios are - from clear astern, boats on same tack/gybe.
a) Boat establishes overlap to windward. Leeward boat has full luffing rights - can luff windward to head to wind.
b) Boat established overlap to leeward within 2 boatlenths of windward. Leeward can only luff to her proper course. This restriction only applies after the start gun. Before the start, there is no proper course.
c) Boat established overlap to leeward more than 2 boat lenths from windward. Leeward has full luffing rights, and can luff windward to head to wind.

Overlap established by tacking/gybing into overlap position from opposite tacks/gybes:

d) Boat tacks or gybes into leeward overlap position. Leeward has full luffing rights, and can luff windward to head to wind.
e) Boat tacks or gybes into windward overlap position. Leeward has full luffing rights, and can luff windward to head to wind.

[ QUOTE ]
'In my day' the leeward boat could luff as fast and hard as it liked and if there was a collision the windward boat was dsq. As I readi to now, the leeward boat has to give the other time to get clear. Am I right?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes.
 
Thanks Keen Ed- nice explanation- Do you mean 2 boat lengths apart laterally, or are you talking about overlaps before getting to marks and giving water?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you mean 2 boat lengths apart laterally, or are you talking about overlaps before getting to marks and giving water?

[/ QUOTE ]2 boatlengths apart. The relevant rule is:[ QUOTE ]
17 ON THE SAME TACK; PROPER COURSE
17.1 If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths
to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above her proper
course while they remain overlapped within that distance, unless in
doing so she promptly sails astern of the other boat. This rule does not
apply if the overlap begins while the windward boat is required by rule
13 to keep clear.

[/ QUOTE ]Rules available here.
 
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