Racing in a narrow fairway channel ?

[stevebrassett]

If you were sailing and on starboard, you were probably the stand-on vessel, unless you were the windward boat. However, being overtaken overrules all that and makes you definitely the stand-on vessel. You were in the right and the laser was wrong. Your only obligation was not to alter your course or speed.

 

[A1Sailor]

If you were sailing and on starboard, you were probably the stand-on vessel, unless you were the windward boat. However, being overtaken overrules all that and makes you definitely the stand-on vessel. You were in the right and the laser was wrong. Your only obligation was not to alter your course or speed.

+1

 

[snowleopard]

I think the club were in the wrong for setting the race course across a fairway

In Chichester harbour there are virtually no stretches of water deep enough for a dinghy with plate down that aren't part of a channel. They have no choice but to use the channels but they can't expect to have exclusive use of them.

 

[prv]

Not sure what the chances are of a dinghy racer knowing Colregs - I confess I didn't when I used to race dinghies.

I've only done a little racing, and that not as skipper, but aren't the racing rules basically colregs with some extra knobs on? So anyone racing above the level of "follow the pack and give way to everyone to be on the safe side" must surely know them?

Pete

 

[ESSC Dinghy Sec]

Hello all,

My first post on this forum, I'm the Dinghy Secretary at Emsworth Slipper Sailing Club. We had a Topper Open meeting on Sunday the 20th May, and judging by the OPs description it may well have been our racing in the Sweare Deep area that gave cause for consternation (30 11-15 year olds in Toppers strikes fear into the hearts of most experienced sailors, dinghies and cruisers alike!).

We will look into this as a club. We have as many cruiser sailors as dinghy sailors at Slipper, and take all reasonable actions to ensure harmony across the water users in Chi Harbour - for example, in busy racing periods we postpone dinghy starts if a yacht is attempting to navigate the channels to the marina, as the channels by the millpond really are narrow and larger boats have no navigational options.

We always look for ways in which to improve our briefings/SIs/etc, if we can learn from this particular incident then we welcome the opportunity to do so.

I'll update this thread once we have investigated, but please do not expect an update before next week - we have a Sailing Committee on Monday where we expect to discuss.

Affinite - I can understand how a situation of this nature can cause distress, please take my assurances that we'll try and find ways to ensure that you are not put in the same position again. Feel free to send me more details, I'd welcome the input.

Best regards, Mark.

 

[A1Sailor]

We sailed a steady course and speed and most zoomed past and missed us by inches but one guy cut it too fine and clipped the transom of our boat and overturned. He didnt say anything but the look on his face as he recovered suggested that it was our fault and that we shouldnt have been in the way of the race; indeed the safety boat driver suggested as much but what were we supposed to do ?


I think the club were in the wrong for setting the race course across a fairway and setting it off when the tide was ebbing but I'd be interested to hear if the panel thinks we should have done anything different.
Racers and cruiser comments welcome

The guy who collided with you and capsized has only himself to blame.
What did the safety boat driver say, out of interest?

 

[pteron]

I've only done a little racing, and that not as skipper, but aren't the racing rules basically colregs with some extra knobs on? So anyone racing above the level of "follow the pack and give way to everyone to be on the safe side" must surely know them?

Pete

Nearly. In racing there is no overtaking rule - it's all about overlaps and proper courses. Notwithstanding that, even if racing, if you hit the transom of a boat ahead you are in the wrong!

 

[temptress]

All good points; there is another 'hazard' now, Moth dinghies on hydrofoils doing incredible speeds and virtually silent, they'd have the effect of an Exocet if they hit a more pedestrian boat like mine !

Fortunately such a boat requires a skilled helmsman and are a joy to see; if they ever become available to jetski drivers I'm giving up sailing and going to live in a desert !

Hey I LIVE in a DESERT and the jetski drivers have BIG 4x4 and mess up the dunes!!!!

 

[benjenbav]

Also I don't recall much about lights and shapes in the racing rules, or sound and light signals, or CBD, or NUC, or RAM, or restricted vis or, TSS, or...

But it was a long time ago that I looked at any racing rules and I know they have changed so I may be out of date. Perhaps they shed some light on what a wing-in-ground craft is.

 

[PeteCooper]

If I believed myself to be wronged in such a situation I would look at how bad the damage is. If the damage is significant, i.e. needing a professional to repair it, I would contact the club organising the racing and tell them what happened, and give them the sail number of the miscreant and ask for his details - after all, to race he must have 3rd party insurance. I would also raise the alleged misdoings of the RIB.
If the damage is minor I would notify the club anyway as part of the education process of their members.

 

[Nico]

Nearly. In racing there is no overtaking rule - it's all about overlaps and proper courses. Notwithstanding that, even if racing, if you hit the transom of a boat ahead you are in the wrong!

They may not call it overtaking, but a boat that establishes an overlap from clear astern is overtaking, or at least is hoping to. If matey is in a laser and intending to luff a Contessa he may be not only in the wrong but disappointed.

Under colregs, when a vessel is overtaking she must keep clear, but the overtaken vessel is under no obligation to hold her course. I'm not sure if that means she is not a "stand on" vessel.

 

[John.edwards]

Nearly. In racing there is no overtaking rule - it's all about overlaps and proper courses. Notwithstanding that, even if racing, if you hit the transom of a boat ahead you are in the wrong!

nearly X2 .... racing rules are for vessels that are racing. Standard Colregs apply for racing boats encountering non-racers. Remember last years collision off Cowes where a racing yacht cut it fine with a freighter

 

[fireball]

I would notify the club anyway as part of the education process of their members.

If it was Sunday 20th then there was a Topper Open at Emsworth Sailing club and Emsworth Slipper Sailing Club

Toppers tend to be raced by juniors - they are a plastic boat rather than GRP and don't seem to cause damage when coming into contact with other vessels (obviously get it the wrong way and they will cause damage!)

If it was a topper then, whilst I wouldn't expect the junior to know about the locality (although they may well be local) I would expect some courtesy from the safety boat crew.
As we weren't there we don't know the exact circumstances that led to the collision - we only have the OPs side of the story. Perhaps the OPs account isn't quite as clearcut as it seems ...

From the account I assume that the racing/start line was further down (south) the channel and not from the club line?

 

[Sans Bateau]

I had a very similar situation on Sunday, a little further down the Emsworth channel at HISC. They had over 100 various dinghies in one race! They stretched from the HISC moorings right across to Fishery. I was under motor and observing the IRPCS had to stop, there was no way through, solid dinghies. I had to motor up through the HISC moorings and even then dinghies were flying out from behind moored boats blind to what or who might have been coming up between.

I have sent an email of complaint to the commodore, and if I do not get a satisfactory response I shall lodge a complaint with the Chi Harbour Authority.

I have no problem with dinghy racing in Chichester harbour, but this was a clear case of selfish use of the harbour with no consideration for anyone else. The same race could have been planned over Stocker lake and Pilsey sands.

 

[Sans Bateau]

If it was Sunday 20th then there was a Topper Open at Emsworth Sailing club and Emsworth Slipper Sailing Club

Toppers tend to be raced by juniors - they are a plastic boat rather than GRP and don't seem to cause damage when coming into contact with other vessels (obviously get it the wrong way and they will cause damage!)

If it was a topper then, whilst I wouldn't expect the junior to know about the locality (although they may well be local) I would expect some courtesy from the safety boat crew.
As we weren't there we don't know the exact circumstances that led to the collision - we only have the OPs side of the story. Perhaps the OPs account isn't quite as clearcut as it seems ...

From the account I assume that the racing/start line was further down (south) the channel and not from the club line?

If it were the Toppers, I passed them too. The finish line was certainly across the fairway, they had a committee boat at anchor just to the west of the Stbd marker where the finishing dinghies were gathering after finishing, just enough room for me to get through, there was no room in the main channel. This obstruction paled into insignificance after the previous display of selfishness.

 

[Moonshining]

I had a very similar situation on Sunday, a little further down the Emsworth channel at HISC. They had over 100 various dinghies in one race! They stretched from the HISC moorings right across to Fishery. I was under motor and observing the IRPCS had to stop, there was no way through, solid dinghies. I had to motor up through the HISC moorings and even then dinghies were flying out from behind moored boats blind to what or who might have been coming up between.

The same thing happened to me a couple of years back at Itchenor. The dinghies were racing between two marks, either side of the fairway just below the Bosham channel. They'd spread out far enough to form a continuous conveyor belt of dinghies. I stopped for a bit, but in the end, I just had to smile sweetly and plough through them.

 

[pteron]

Toppers tend to be raced by juniors - they are a plastic boat rather than GRP and don't seem to cause damage when coming into contact with other vessels (obviously get it the wrong way and they will cause damage!)

They can cause a surprising amount of damage - the little ridge where the hull meets the topsides took a chunk out of the bow of my parked RS400. £650 quid to fix.

T

 

[fireball]

If it were the Toppers, I passed them too. The finish line was certainly across the fairway, they had a committee boat at anchor just to the west of the Stbd marker where the finishing dinghies were gathering after finishing, just enough room for me to get through, there was no room in the main channel. This obstruction paled into insignificance after the previous display of selfishness.

If they were "blocking" the channel with the committee boat line could you draw a little sketch and email it over please?

 

[fireball]

They can cause a surprising amount of damage - the little ridge where the hull meets the topsides took a chunk out of the bow of my parked RS400. £650 quid to fix.

T

I did qualify it with a "get it the wrong way" statement ...

Generally if your boat was involved in an on-the-water collision with a topper then one would bounce of the other and you'd probably have a scratch or two - unless you managed to catch a leading edge or chine ...

Anyway - bows on RS400's are easily chipped - done it on my own just pulling onto the trolley!

 

[benjenbav]

Without wishing to be unduly pedantic would the ridge in question be where the topsides meet the deck? I am struggling to visualise the description of where the topsides meet the hull.