Race boat for £10k - any (more) suggestions?

MissFitz

MissFitz

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After several years of racing on other people's boats I'm thinking of getting one of my own. I'm based in Brighton so most of the racing will be round the cans here, but being able to go offshore would be nice too (we have short offshore races once a month plus several to France in the summer). I'd like to keep the cost of the boat down to £10k max as that would leave me some cash in hand for berthing, maintenance etc. I'm very competitive & want to win. I also like going very fast & much prefer asymmetric boats.

So far I've come up with two very different options: a Cork 1720 or a Hunter Sonata. The 1720 is asymmetric, super fast & pretty competitive under IRC but needs at least five crew (particularly as I don't weigh much) & can't be sailed solo or offshore. The Sonata, on the other hand, is slow & symmetric but can go offshore, be sailed solo or shorthanded, & is I gather very competitive under IRC. It's also even cheaper than the 1720.

Are there any other options I should/could be looking at? Any feedback on the two above also very welcome.
 
Look for the sonata's bigger brother the Impala. Seriously fast for its size and often come race set up. Simple and usually well constructed boats as are most of the Hunters. Nearly as easy to sail short handed but a much more serious offshore boat than the Sonata. Also worth considering is the Hunter delta, bigger than the sonata and fast, Biased as I used to own one.
 
For sailing off Brighton I would consider getting something a little larger than a Sonata.

Checking Boatshed turned up a Hustler SJ30 asking £11,500 - a half tonner from 1980 by Stephen Jones. It would certainly be far more suitable and possibly even better than an Impala. This one does seem to have had quite a lot of money spent on it and would be worth a viewing in Falmouth.

Other old half tonners could also be worth considering like the Scampi, Ballad 30 & Nich 30 as most will be close to your budget. Also boats like the Trapper 28 (not 500 series), Trapper 300, & MG27.
 
Would forget sonata , unless you are a masochist or enjoy short races in a one design fleet , trust me i have one , they are great for one design racing as they have a speed limiter built in , a hump under the stern , which when the boat tries to do more than 4.5 knotss sucks boat further into water and speed stops there :) great for close racing ,

They may do well on handicap in lighter winds when they reach hull speed very quickly , but beyond forget it ,


There are many more boats better suited to your needs , your initial post was comparing the hair to a cramped tortoise .


Theres an eliminator 32 for sale at port edgar , dont be put off by distance , its not that exspensive to shift boats about the country
 
Guess I'm already finding out why the Sonatas are so cheap! Thanks markhomer, very useful feedback from an owner.

Only slight concern about some of the above would be that berthing costs in Brighton go up almost exponentially as you add length. It's £1,799 pa for 6.5m, £2,640 for 7m, & rockets on up from there. Would therefore prefer to keep the length down if possible.
 
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I wouldn't recommend a Sonata for offshore racing. They're pretty tippy. One Sonata owner said to me during a F7-8 beat in a particularly ugly seaway "If this were my boat we'd be dead by now".

Impalas seem to be pretty competitive under IRC, and will be a little better offshore. It may be worthwhile thinking again about the offshore element - you could race inshore on your own boat and go offshore on an OPB - or get something slow & sturdy that rates well.

It would be very informative for you to ask around amongst the boats that you will be competing against to see what they spend each year, especially on sails.

Co-ownership is one way out, but make sure the other co-owners are competent enough to race at the same level as you. You may find yourself able to tolerate a weak link who pays half the bills, but the good ones amongst your crew won't.
 
OK then you want something short. Look for a Hunter Formula One. http://www.hunterformulaone.co.uk/ These are 22ft long and go like the clappers in smooth water, so not ideal for Brighton. I used to own one and it was easy to plane (even managed that with a double reef and storm jib one day!), BUT they are slightly unstable in the wrong hands and are possible to sink if they nose dive at speed. The bonus is they are trailer sailers, so you could take elsewhere to sail or home for winter. Usually sailed by a crew of 3, but I have singlehanded in light airs and also sailed with 4 as the cockpit is very large. Not a boat to think of sleeping onboard as only sitting headroom and camping equipment. Well within your budget, check the website as there is one for sale.

Another slightly larger boat would be the Beneteau First Class 8. http://www.finot.com/bateaux/batproduction/beneteau/firstclass8/fstclass8_ang.htm. Not many in the UK, but there is one for sale in Ireland. http://www.adverts.ie/boats-accessories/yacht-sport-boat-beneteau-first-class-8-for-sale/514380. There was a First Class 7 (http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=291) and that was my second choice after the Hunter Formula One (which I bought new) when I ordered it.

Another boat to look for would be an E-Boat. http://www.rlmr.co.uk/E-Boats/index.html Certainly plenty of volume. Also check for J24 and old quarter tonners like Ecume de Mer.
 
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Are there any dayboat fleets in Brighton?

Better OD racing?

I would second the Impala as a good choice though, but I don't know what they are like to find in raceworthy condition now.
I sold mine in 2001.
I have sailed the lift keel Sonatas and Duettes in pretty strong breeze when I was younger, the RYA used to run a small fleet of them.
I was young and stupid in those days, but the boats cope with a lot.
Folkboat? Good IMHO because it is less dependent on porkers on the rail.
1/4 tonner?

I would look at what racing you might aspire to and try to get something that fits into the fleet.
There is something to be said for racing your own boat around the cans and doing some 'proper' offshore stuff on a bigger boat that you are not paying for.
 
MissFitz said:
I'd like to keep the cost of the boat down to £10k max as that would leave me some cash in hand for berthing, maintenance etc. I'm very competitive & want to win. I also like going very fast & much prefer asymmetric boats.
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Sad fact is that under 10k (therefore small), fast and competitive under IRC are basically mutually exclusive, pick any 2....

If you want to blast around and don't really care about the pickle dishes, then look at Bull 7000, Projection 762, Sigma 8m, Hunter 707 etc. None of which will really be any good offshore (except perhaps the Projection). All except the Bull are S-boats, but with dead or dying classes could be ripe for "turboing" - sticking a fixed prod and a massive A-sail on. A 707 with that done to could be a very interesting IRC proposition actually...

For something more sedate, how about a 1/4 tonner? Seriously good "classish" racing, and good under IRC although your budget will be a little light to get close to the front of the fleet without a lot of DIY...
 
Thanks again all, some really interesting suggestions - particularly from Flaming, who clearly appreciates my need for speed!

Sadly main conclusion from all this is that I probably still can't really quite afford what I want, damn it. Oh well, maybe next year......
 
Formula Ones are great (I own one) but don't think it'd be the boat for the OP. Sailing from Brighton is pretty exposed and they definitely prefer sheltered waters. We sail in the Solent and do sleep on board (2 adult, 2 young children) but it is basic camping only! I'm not sure I'd fancy doing a cross channel in it, I'd rather put her on the trailer and go by ferry...

They are fast though and will surf readily and plane in flat water. Not much (apart from the sportsboats) are quicker at that size. Current IRC is 0.872, which is only a little slower than an impala.
 
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Concerto said:
For sailing off Brighton I would consider getting something a little larger than a Sonata.

Checking Boatshed turned up a Hustler SJ30 asking £11,500 - a half tonner from 1980 by Stephen Jones. It would certainly be far more suitable and possibly even better than an Impala. This one does seem to have had quite a lot of money spent on it and would be worth a viewing in Falmouth.

Other old half tonners could also be worth considering like the Scampi, Ballad 30 & Nich 30 as most will be close to your budget. Also boats like the Trapper 28 (not 500 series), Trapper 300, & MG27.
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We have a Nic 30 and a couple of Trapper sailing in our feelt and competing well. However thats PY not IRC. And unless the OP is willing to spend on things like sails, she is deceiving herslf thinking that the likes of an Impala or Sonata would be competitive. To my mins a 10k budget and IRC dont go together
 
Another vote for an Impala - well sorted ones are asking about £12500 so you should get a respectable one for £10k. Most have inboards now and the class is much revived in recent years. Google the class site which had some for sale last time I looked. They are tough to beat in IRC - did someone say rating bandit or is it that they tend to be well sailed. Watch out for the decapitation level boom and be aware the fast ones sail with loads of weight on the rail when the wind is up especially in one-design events.
 
Re: Impala/Sonata etc. Other David Thomas designs which were designed to the IOR rule whic are still competetive are the Quarto, Quartet & Bolero (all 25ft-ish), 28ft Hydro and 31ft Toledo.

Any of the 'One-off' or 'Few-made' IOR designs by Rob Humphreys, Ed Dubois & Stephen Jones are usually a safe bet as rating well under IRC.

An outstanding non-IOR design is Bruce Farr's Laser 28. It rates well, has liveable accomodation and goes like the clappers (doesn't plane though).

Hope this helps.
 
Or how about a Corby 35 for under 7 grand?
http://www.clarkeandcarter.co.uk/br...llspecs.php?DocumentID=4425257&desc=4425257 -

4425257_20130731083423842_1_LARGE.jpg
 
I have raced Sonatas and Impalas. Sonata in a chop is not fun, its like someone putting the handbrake on every time you go into a wave. Great for what is was designed for but that wasnt offshore racing.

The Impala is a different machine as people have said well set up boats can get a move on. Plus with the handicap you can be up there.

Where I am based there is a fleet of J80's These are real pocket rockets but need a team of people that know their stuff.

Good luck, my vote would be the Impala everyday.
 
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