Question on winterising diesel engine

[Peter]

Will be leaving boat in water for winter to do work on her, so will not be using her. My question is do I winterise the engine, ie flush out salt water and drain down and leave unrun until next spring. Or run the engine occasionally over the winter on the basis of keeping things moving and getting oil to places where its drained from

What's the best strategy?

Peter

 

[theoldsalt]

Peter,

Is the engine direct or indirect cooled?

 

[robp]

Will be leaving boat in water for winter to do work on her, so will not be using her. My question is do I winterise the engine, ie flush out salt water and drain down and leave unrun until next spring. Or run the engine occasionally over the winter on the basis of keeping things moving and getting oil to places where its drained from

What's the best strategy?

Peter

Change the oil and filter now. If it is fresh and seawater cooled, make sure that there is a good mixture of the recommended antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor in the fresh water system.
It will have to be very cold for the sea water to freeze inside the engine/boat, whist she is afloat but if yr in a marina, use a greenhouse heater next to the engine. Yes start the engine periodically and run for twenty minutes or so. Probably will now get comments about cyinder glazing but again if in a marina, let the boat strain in gear against the springs.

 

[ianat182]

My boat stayed in last year throughout the winter.

I left the raw water inlet open, but topped up the Heat Exchanger with the recommended 50:50 antifreeze (with corrosion inhibitors), and ran the engine at least once per week, but not long enough to get it hot in the engine compartment, my reasoning being that condensation would be created, this also ensured that the inlet was clear of growth.
The odd weekend or weekday allowed a scuttle across to Cowes etc, and I did have a problem with the H/E sealing cap sealing properly . I thought it had frozen,but it needed firmer downward pressure to release properly. The regular running kept the boat's batteries up to scratch. I would ensure that the fuel tank is topped up to reduce condensation there too.

ianat182

 

[vyv_cox]

Probably will now get comments about cyinder glazing but again if in a marina, let the boat strain in gear against the springs.

Glazing is certainly a possibility, as is condensation, sulphur products in the bores and unecessary wear. It takes a lot longer than 20 minutes to thoroughly warm an engine.

What beneficial effects does running the engine periodically achieve? I suggest you turn it off in October and run it next when you are going out in 2012.

 

[robp]

Glazing is certainly a possibility, as is condensation, sulphur products in the bores and unecessary wear. It takes a lot longer than 20 minutes to thoroughly warm an engine.

What beneficial effects does running the engine periodically achieve? I suggest you turn it off in October and run it next when you are going out in 2012.

Vyv I've learnt a lot from you, from both your posts and web site. Thank you. So this is only my reasoning and certainly not a counter. I reason that if we have a long hard winter, then slow freezing of sea water could occur if not interrupted periodically? Also spreading some oil around as one would if it were in summer use. Plus, the batteries as another poster mentioned.
If one shut it down for the winter, I guess then you would purge the block of seawater and close the seacocks?

 

[yimkin]

robp drain the raw water system, turn the engine over periodically by handle (if available) or by activating the starter with the stop lever engaged; charge the batteries periodically with a mains charger and start your engine at the beginning of your next season.

 

[Iain C]

OK so whilst we are on the topic, my boat is coming out. Oil already changed and if I can I will make sure the last water running through the raw water side is 50/50 fresh water and AF.

2 questions:

-Drain the fresh water down or leave it? (Coolant/AF was renewed in March)

-Remove air filter/exhaust and cover apertures, or leave as is? I've heard 2 schools of thought...let it breathe and get some fresh air, and conversely seal the damp out. Running heaters/dehumidifiers won't be an option I'm afraid.

Ta

 

[vyv_cox]

OK so whilst we are on the topic, my boat is coming out. Oil already changed and if I can I will make sure the last water running through the raw water side is 50/50 fresh water and AF.

2 questions:

-Drain the fresh water down or leave it? (Coolant/AF was renewed in March)

-Remove air filter/exhaust and cover apertures, or leave as is? I've heard 2 schools of thought...let it breathe and get some fresh air, and conversely seal the damp out. Running heaters/dehumidifiers won't be an option I'm afraid.

Ta

If you have sufficient new antifreeze in your coolant then it should most definitely remain in place. It won't freeze and the corrosion inhibitor that is also present will keep the internals nice.

I push a rag up the exhaust skin fitting but have my doubts that it actually achieves anything so far as moist air is concerned. There cannot be much in the way of circulation right through the engine so the likelihood of moisture getting all the way to it seems low.

In Greece it's well worth doing to prevent wasps from nesting inside. Two years ago we even noticed a small insect entering the tiny drain hole below the radar scanner and I have heard of major infestations where log impellers have been left out.

On the antifreeze point, and I notice this is not addressed in a recent PBO, unless a raw-water cooled engine is at working temperature, or you have taken the thermostat out, flushing with antifreeze will only protect the bypass, which is probably not worth the effort. To ensure that the engine is filled you need to circulate the solution for some time, catching it emerging from the exhaust and leading it back to the raw water pump.

 

[vyv_cox]

robp drain the raw water system, turn the engine over periodically by handle (if available) or by activating the starter with the stop lever engaged; charge the batteries periodically with a mains charger and start your engine at the beginning of your next season.

The problem with turning the engine over by hand, and possibly even with the starter, is that it does not generate sufficient oil pressure, particularly in an older engine with oil pump wear. The components that most need protection, the bores, are lubricated by squirts of oil from the connecting rods. Unless pressure is high this will not happen. The bearings in diesel engines will not corrode unless flooded with water, so turning the engine over achieves little.

 

[theoldsalt]

Vyv,

To clarify your last point in post 9 re flushing with antifreeze.

Am I correct in assuming this comment applies only to raw water (direct) cooled engines

Regards

Jeff

 

[vyv_cox]

Yes, sorry, I should have made that clear. Will edit it.

 

[srah1953]

What beneficial effects does running the engine periodically achieve? I suggest you turn it off in October and run it next when you are going out in 2012.

Is there not a benefit in running the engine regularly to keep moving parts covered in oil? Is the argument that the balance of advantage lies in not starting at all, rather than running at low speeds? And what if there are occasions when the boat may be taken out for a sail - is it best not to run it in between?

 

[rafiki_]

I don't believe there is a real benefit in running the engines regularly over winter. The oil wil drain down in a matter of hours not weeks, and what remains in the bearings residually will stay for months rather tha days. So best in my opinion is to change the oil before winterising, and leave till the spring. When you start first time in the spring, run the starter motor for bursts of 15 secs max, inhibiting starting, until you see some pressure on the oil gauge, then start. Make sure your coolant is OK in a fresh cooled engine, fill raw water side with coolant mix, keep tube heaters on a thermostat, stand back and relax.

 

[vyv_cox]

I don't believe there is a real benefit in running the engines regularly over winter. The oil wil drain down in a matter of hours not weeks, and what remains in the bearings residually will stay for months rather tha days. So best in my opinion is to change the oil before winterising, and leave till the spring. When you start first time in the spring, run the starter motor for bursts of 15 secs max, inhibiting starting, until you see some pressure on the oil gauge, then start. Make sure your coolant is OK in a fresh cooled engine, fill raw water side with coolant mix, keep tube heaters on a thermostat, stand back and relax.

Well put. I fully agree.

 

[contessaman]

here we go then, my predicament:

direct cooled perkins diesel.
boat afloat through winter (no shore power for heater)
boat kept in cardiff bay - freshwater.

prudence says winterise with antifreeze in the usual manner. But once I have done this I cant then use the boat on some of those nice winter days one gets.

if the temperature is around zero and frosty etc im sure that the engine down in the bowels of the boat wont get to freeze. however given the 'cold snaps' of the last 2 winters - last year I stood on the frozen water next to my boat - then I think it probably would get that cold on board to crack the block. so I just cant risk it....

I dont even live near the boat (100 miles and away with work a lot) so I cant just leave it and do the antifreeze thing if things get really cold.

 

[Leonidas]

Glazing is certainly a possibility, as is condensation, sulphur products in the bores and unecessary wear. It takes a lot longer than 20 minutes to thoroughly warm an engine.

What beneficial effects does running the engine periodically achieve? I suggest you turn it off in October and run it next when you are going out in 2012.

+1. may also be adviseable to turn the engine by hand now and then so that all moving parts don't stay in the same position for too long

 

[vyv_cox]

here we go then, my predicament:

direct cooled perkins diesel.
boat afloat through winter (no shore power for heater)
boat kept in cardiff bay - freshwater.

prudence says winterise with antifreeze in the usual manner. But once I have done this I cant then use the boat on some of those nice winter days one gets.

if the temperature is around zero and frosty etc im sure that the engine down in the bowels of the boat wont get to freeze. however given the 'cold snaps' of the last 2 winters - last year I stood on the frozen water next to my boat - then I think it probably would get that cold on board to crack the block. so I just cant risk it....

I dont even live near the boat (100 miles and away with work a lot) so I cant just leave it and do the antifreeze thing if things get really cold.

The alternative to filling it with antifreeze is to drain it down. Open the pump cover, no real need to remove it, just loosen the screws. Drain from all of the cocks that are fitted, then pump the bilge. Ideally drain the trap also, but if you have a thermoplastic one it should be OK.

 

[contessaman]

The alternative to filling it with antifreeze is to drain it down. Open the pump cover, no real need to remove it, just loosen the screws. Drain from all of the cocks that are fitted, then pump the bilge. Ideally drain the trap also, but if you have a thermoplastic one it should be OK.

vyv, that would be much better. In fact my jabsco pump needs to come off for overhaul anyway. I did think of this. had a look in the 4/108 manual and it talks about drain taps but I cant see them on my block. it may have rusted over plugs/ core plugs but I dont want to disturb them, lest I start a leak I can never stop.

Im not sure that draining through the jabsco would be low enough to get most of the water out of the block.

what about taking apart thermosat housing then getting the long thin hose of my vacuum oil changer/general suction thingie down there and sucking most of the water out?

If I can protect my engine by draining it thats the A level solution because getting antifreeze through it without spilling any in the bay will be tricky to say the least. I have made friends with a lot of swans and ducks due to my generosity with the bread I dont want to pollute their habitat!

if you have any 4/108 experience and can direct me to protecting my engine im all ears!!

ta

 

[vyv_cox]

Sorry, I don't know your engine well enough. Opening the pump may not drain the block, you should be able to see whether it is at the lowest point. Definitely don't start playing with core plugs. It would be unusual for a marine engine, especially an older one, not to have drain cocks somewhere. I doubt that you could reliably suck out all the water, draining has to be best.