PhilipStapleton
Well-Known Member
\"Qualifications\"
All this talk about qualifications - let's see what the forum has done...
All this talk about qualifications - let's see what the forum has done...
"Qualifications"
- Thread starter PhilipStapleton
- Start date
bilbobaggins
N/A
Re: \"Qualifications\"
I've got lots. Is there a market? Who wants 'em?
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I've got lots. Is there a market? Who wants 'em?
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PhilipStapleton
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\"
New or used? Not much of a market for used - the forum has more Yachtmasters than people with no RYA certificates (as at 11:30)
New or used? Not much of a market for used - the forum has more Yachtmasters than people with no RYA certificates (as at 11:30)
G
Guest
Guest
Re: \"Qualifications\"
Don't forget there are others with other qualifications that fall outside the RYA ones you have indicated. eg I had to take Dayboat Ticket at MN College to be able to race the GP14's against local clubs .... can't remember its proper title ... lost the bit of paper now anyway !
Only mentioning above .... makes no odds to me !!
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Don't forget there are others with other qualifications that fall outside the RYA ones you have indicated. eg I had to take Dayboat Ticket at MN College to be able to race the GP14's against local clubs .... can't remember its proper title ... lost the bit of paper now anyway !
Only mentioning above .... makes no odds to me !!
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\"
I have a 2nd Officer (Foreign Going) Certificate... and no yachting qualifications yet, unless you count ICC.
Regds,
Richard
I have a 2nd Officer (Foreign Going) Certificate... and no yachting qualifications yet, unless you count ICC.
Regds,
Richard
Dyflin
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\"
[ QUOTE ]
I have a 2nd Officer (Foreign Going) Certificate... and no yachting qualifications yet, unless you count ICC.
Regds,
Richard
[/ QUOTE ]
I have the same, but did the day skipper with friends for a giggle.
[ QUOTE ]
I have a 2nd Officer (Foreign Going) Certificate... and no yachting qualifications yet, unless you count ICC.
Regds,
Richard
[/ QUOTE ]
I have the same, but did the day skipper with friends for a giggle.
Aja
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\"
Does a Helmsman's Certificate from the Glasow Schools Sailing Club (aka The Brassbounders) count for anything?
Donald
Does a Helmsman's Certificate from the Glasow Schools Sailing Club (aka The Brassbounders) count for anything?
Donald
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\"
Qulifications is it? Now beet this O LEVEL English langage ,Welsh for English speaking poopils (Distiction) . Back in sensible mode, I think Day Skipper theory at least is a worthwhile excersize. Then get as much time on the water as you can(which we all try to do anyway?) Like lot,s of us I,ve done loads but I like it anyway, if yer know what I mean! On the other hand guy moored near me never had any classroom or on water tuition, just loads of experience and tuition by older Old Salts would go afloat with him anytime. I found all the courses to do with things boaty fascinating. Wished that I,d been that attentive in School, might have a Proper Job now /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Qulifications is it? Now beet this O LEVEL English langage ,Welsh for English speaking poopils (Distiction) . Back in sensible mode, I think Day Skipper theory at least is a worthwhile excersize. Then get as much time on the water as you can(which we all try to do anyway?) Like lot,s of us I,ve done loads but I like it anyway, if yer know what I mean! On the other hand guy moored near me never had any classroom or on water tuition, just loads of experience and tuition by older Old Salts would go afloat with him anytime. I found all the courses to do with things boaty fascinating. Wished that I,d been that attentive in School, might have a Proper Job now /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
G
Guest
Guest
Re: \"Qualifications\" - isn\'t it funny ...
I've noticed a trend with "Licence" posts / threads ....
Often they are started by someone who :
a) Is contemplating doing a RYA course or
b) Has just completed one and wants to tell the world or
c) Can't make mind up whats best to do
It's also interesting that when you get talking to real old salts and those who are good on boats - they often don't give any idea or comment about what they may have - it never comes up. Often they just quietly go about their boating ... observing others foolery without comment. Odd times popping up at right moment to fend of that little disaster for you - nothing said - just done and a nice smile.
I don't think that a poll will prove anything other than sheer numbers who do one course or another. Competence is not packaged with a piece of paper - whether it be Master of a Ship or Dayboat yottie.
IMHO of course !!
I've noticed a trend with "Licence" posts / threads ....
Often they are started by someone who :
a) Is contemplating doing a RYA course or
b) Has just completed one and wants to tell the world or
c) Can't make mind up whats best to do
It's also interesting that when you get talking to real old salts and those who are good on boats - they often don't give any idea or comment about what they may have - it never comes up. Often they just quietly go about their boating ... observing others foolery without comment. Odd times popping up at right moment to fend of that little disaster for you - nothing said - just done and a nice smile.
I don't think that a poll will prove anything other than sheer numbers who do one course or another. Competence is not packaged with a piece of paper - whether it be Master of a Ship or Dayboat yottie.
IMHO of course !!
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\"
If you are going to have a poll on RYA certificates, why just put up some of them, what happened to level 2 intermediate, advanced etc?
If you are going to have a poll on RYA certificates, why just put up some of them, what happened to level 2 intermediate, advanced etc?
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\" - isn\'t it funny ...
I agree. You can do all the courses but unless you are out regularly and often practicing the art, they are just bits of paper.
I agree. You can do all the courses but unless you are out regularly and often practicing the art, they are just bits of paper.
PhilipStapleton
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\" - isn\'t it funny ...
Sorry about helsmanship, Level 1, Level 2, Master qualifications etc, but I'm interested in Sail Cruising.
It seems the "Old Salts" are more likely to have done the RYA courses - even if they don't talk about the bit of paper.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that a poll will prove anything other than sheer numbers who do one course or another. Competence is not packaged with a piece of paper - whether it be Master of a Ship or Dayboat yottie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Competence may not be packaged with a piece of paper, but at least a course lets you know what you should know and sets you on the road to learning.
The poll is proving that a lot of people do do the courses - and I think that's great.
Sorry about helsmanship, Level 1, Level 2, Master qualifications etc, but I'm interested in Sail Cruising.
It seems the "Old Salts" are more likely to have done the RYA courses - even if they don't talk about the bit of paper.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that a poll will prove anything other than sheer numbers who do one course or another. Competence is not packaged with a piece of paper - whether it be Master of a Ship or Dayboat yottie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Competence may not be packaged with a piece of paper, but at least a course lets you know what you should know and sets you on the road to learning.
The poll is proving that a lot of people do do the courses - and I think that's great.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\" - isn\'t it funny ...
If you've grown up with sailing then the people who start via courses seem to be artificial sailors for many years after they take up the sport - and this divide in attitude leads to the arguments about the merits of the courses.
IMHO I think it's very little to do with the content of the courses and more to do with the choices people make if they choose to take up sailing some years after the age of two. Starting with a course or two has got to be better than simply setting off in crowded waters and hoping for the best.
If you've grown up with sailing then the people who start via courses seem to be artificial sailors for many years after they take up the sport - and this divide in attitude leads to the arguments about the merits of the courses.
IMHO I think it's very little to do with the content of the courses and more to do with the choices people make if they choose to take up sailing some years after the age of two. Starting with a course or two has got to be better than simply setting off in crowded waters and hoping for the best.
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\" - isn\'t it funny ...
"but at least a course lets you know what you should know and sets you on the road to learning" - so does a book!!
"but at least a course lets you know what you should know and sets you on the road to learning" - so does a book!!
iangrant
Well-Known Member
Re: \"Qualifications\" - isn\'t it funny ...
exactly right nige -
cheers
ian
exactly right nige -
cheers
ian
bilbobaggins
N/A
Re: \"Qualifications\"
The constant and recurring airing of prejudice on this topic reminds me of a quip overheard in a squadron crewroom many years ago....
Squabbling-bleeder, in support of his argument, "I'm right - I've got 20 years' experience on twinjets that says so!"
Grizzled ex-wartime QFI, with alternative view, "Is that 20 years of experience, repeated once - or one year of experience, repeated 20 times?"
Know the difference....
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The constant and recurring airing of prejudice on this topic reminds me of a quip overheard in a squadron crewroom many years ago....
Squabbling-bleeder, in support of his argument, "I'm right - I've got 20 years' experience on twinjets that says so!"
Grizzled ex-wartime QFI, with alternative view, "Is that 20 years of experience, repeated once - or one year of experience, repeated 20 times?"
Know the difference....
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
G
Guest
Guest
Do a course and set sail ?
Didn't a certain boat in the news recently have a person on-board who had done a course ? Still lost his boat on the rocks.
C'mon - no-ones arguing that courses aren't good .... we all have had to complete courses on all sorts of things through our lives - whether its school / college etc. I had to do years at Marine College to reach the dizzy heights on ship ... not once but repeated for each step up.
Courses are very good as they focus on the topic and not get distracted by non-important things. Hopefully you have a good instructor that can put over all the bits and bobs that took "old-salts" years to understand - and let's face it - some still don't understand why - but they can sure as hell solve it !
I don't do courses - I don't have time. Plus I grew up on boats ..... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do a course and also learn something from it if I had the time. Of course I would - and that goes for all on here.
I think the argument comes from the point of view that fewer incidents would occur if courses were required by Law etc. That is something I do not agree with - living as I do in an area where Licence is by law and required. I get away with it cause I'm expat and they don't trouble me.
As long as people take a course and then regard it as a starting point to get going on real-life experience - then fine.
I can't help recalling a conversation in the Spinnaker Pub opposite Moodys years ago.
2 guys obviously in the pub for lunch from their boats in the yard .... I'm standing next to them also waiting for my pint at the bar. They are trying to decide best way to determine CTS for a cross-channel run etc. Well you stand next to someone and can't help hearing its a subject close to own heart !
So I said hello and asked if I may help ... they said ok - they were interested. I drew a vector on the back of a beer-mat and said basically that's it ... They scoffed and retort was - Huh - what do you know, it can't be that easy .....
So I moved away with a reply "Well I'll remember that next time I'm taking a 300,000 tonner up the channel ......"
Some can learn from courses and understand its a start - others consider it the be all and end all. Bit like the kid who passes driving test and then goes on motorway thinking he's Schumacher.
Didn't a certain boat in the news recently have a person on-board who had done a course ? Still lost his boat on the rocks.
C'mon - no-ones arguing that courses aren't good .... we all have had to complete courses on all sorts of things through our lives - whether its school / college etc. I had to do years at Marine College to reach the dizzy heights on ship ... not once but repeated for each step up.
Courses are very good as they focus on the topic and not get distracted by non-important things. Hopefully you have a good instructor that can put over all the bits and bobs that took "old-salts" years to understand - and let's face it - some still don't understand why - but they can sure as hell solve it !
I don't do courses - I don't have time. Plus I grew up on boats ..... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do a course and also learn something from it if I had the time. Of course I would - and that goes for all on here.
I think the argument comes from the point of view that fewer incidents would occur if courses were required by Law etc. That is something I do not agree with - living as I do in an area where Licence is by law and required. I get away with it cause I'm expat and they don't trouble me.
As long as people take a course and then regard it as a starting point to get going on real-life experience - then fine.
I can't help recalling a conversation in the Spinnaker Pub opposite Moodys years ago.
2 guys obviously in the pub for lunch from their boats in the yard .... I'm standing next to them also waiting for my pint at the bar. They are trying to decide best way to determine CTS for a cross-channel run etc. Well you stand next to someone and can't help hearing its a subject close to own heart !
So I said hello and asked if I may help ... they said ok - they were interested. I drew a vector on the back of a beer-mat and said basically that's it ... They scoffed and retort was - Huh - what do you know, it can't be that easy .....
So I moved away with a reply "Well I'll remember that next time I'm taking a 300,000 tonner up the channel ......"
Some can learn from courses and understand its a start - others consider it the be all and end all. Bit like the kid who passes driving test and then goes on motorway thinking he's Schumacher.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Re: Do a course and set sail ?
[ QUOTE ]
Bit like the kid who passes driving test and then goes on motorway thinking he's Schumacher.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is my main gripe with RYA tickets.
With the advent of cheap (JenBenBav) yachts sailing has become affordable for the masses. Good thing <-> bad thing???
My point is this: there used to be a natural progression in boat ownership. You started as a kid or at least very young on dinghies, moved to a small cabin cruiser (20-25ft), yet more years of experience gained. Then, when you had been sailing 10-15years you would move on to a "big" boat (+/-35ft).
You were comfortable on the water and you knew what you were doing.
Nowadays this is entry-level. Every Tom, Dick and Harry who fancies a go at this sailing lark has plenty of options. "Have you seen what a big boat you can get for very little money?" If you're lucky they do Dazed Kipper, and they're off... ready to take on the world. And they've got a piece of paper telling them they're the man!
Do you feel safe on the water?
Whenever I see a shiny new plastic fantastic approaching I keep well clear. God only knows what he knows, if he's seen me or what he's going to do next.
This is also a reason why I prefer the East Coast to the Solent - less Hurray Henry's spending last year's X-Mas bonus.
[ QUOTE ]
Bit like the kid who passes driving test and then goes on motorway thinking he's Schumacher.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is my main gripe with RYA tickets.
With the advent of cheap (JenBenBav) yachts sailing has become affordable for the masses. Good thing <-> bad thing???
My point is this: there used to be a natural progression in boat ownership. You started as a kid or at least very young on dinghies, moved to a small cabin cruiser (20-25ft), yet more years of experience gained. Then, when you had been sailing 10-15years you would move on to a "big" boat (+/-35ft).
You were comfortable on the water and you knew what you were doing.
Nowadays this is entry-level. Every Tom, Dick and Harry who fancies a go at this sailing lark has plenty of options. "Have you seen what a big boat you can get for very little money?" If you're lucky they do Dazed Kipper, and they're off... ready to take on the world. And they've got a piece of paper telling them they're the man!
Do you feel safe on the water?
Whenever I see a shiny new plastic fantastic approaching I keep well clear. God only knows what he knows, if he's seen me or what he's going to do next.
This is also a reason why I prefer the East Coast to the Solent - less Hurray Henry's spending last year's X-Mas bonus.
jonathankent
Well-Known Member
Re: Do a course and set sail ?
I have to agree with you to some extent.... I hope that I am following your preferred route through sailing....
I have been very keen to get into sailing for the last 10 years almost (since living by the coast) and finally 2 years ago I booked myself on the comp crew course to learn how to sail. I knew this wasn't going to give me knowledge to do everything, but it would give me a very good insight into sailing and enable to try and crew for someone else... which within a couple of months had managed to get regular sailing to build on my experience.
A few months later I thought I was ready for the next step... so did DS theory followed by practical in a 2 week period. This route, I believe, gave me enough sailing experience and then linked together with DS gave me an insight into the knowledge required... I add insight, by no means do I think I know it all and in fact I carry 2 or 3 books on board just for the things that I haven't come across or need reminding.
Now after completing DS I wanted my own little cruiser. I was looking around for 6 to 8 months before buying my Fantasie. Now this is only 19', but can cater for my current needs perfectly. It will allow me to gain sailing experience and also as skippering. Obviously years (maybe 3-5) down the line I will be looking to buy something a little larger, say 26-30 feet and progress from there.
I, because its the way I'm doing it, feel this is the best route into sailing... start small and work upwards. This is just the way I think in most things, especially at work where I feel you should start at the bottom and work your way upwards, not come in with a piece of paper (degree) and think you should go straight to the top... its the same thing here.
I would think that if you couldn't just do the DS then people wouldn't buy such large first time yachts... I think this gives them a false sense of security...'I'm absolutely fine.. got the skipper's certificate to prove it...' If the rule was to gain in experience by working up 'through the ranks' then hopefully this would help to prevent this... its a little different slant to the whole licensing issue, which hopefully you experience skippers with 20, 30, 40 yrs experience wouldn't be affected by.... just a thought.
I have to agree with you to some extent.... I hope that I am following your preferred route through sailing....
I have been very keen to get into sailing for the last 10 years almost (since living by the coast) and finally 2 years ago I booked myself on the comp crew course to learn how to sail. I knew this wasn't going to give me knowledge to do everything, but it would give me a very good insight into sailing and enable to try and crew for someone else... which within a couple of months had managed to get regular sailing to build on my experience.
A few months later I thought I was ready for the next step... so did DS theory followed by practical in a 2 week period. This route, I believe, gave me enough sailing experience and then linked together with DS gave me an insight into the knowledge required... I add insight, by no means do I think I know it all and in fact I carry 2 or 3 books on board just for the things that I haven't come across or need reminding.
Now after completing DS I wanted my own little cruiser. I was looking around for 6 to 8 months before buying my Fantasie. Now this is only 19', but can cater for my current needs perfectly. It will allow me to gain sailing experience and also as skippering. Obviously years (maybe 3-5) down the line I will be looking to buy something a little larger, say 26-30 feet and progress from there.
I, because its the way I'm doing it, feel this is the best route into sailing... start small and work upwards. This is just the way I think in most things, especially at work where I feel you should start at the bottom and work your way upwards, not come in with a piece of paper (degree) and think you should go straight to the top... its the same thing here.
I would think that if you couldn't just do the DS then people wouldn't buy such large first time yachts... I think this gives them a false sense of security...'I'm absolutely fine.. got the skipper's certificate to prove it...' If the rule was to gain in experience by working up 'through the ranks' then hopefully this would help to prevent this... its a little different slant to the whole licensing issue, which hopefully you experience skippers with 20, 30, 40 yrs experience wouldn't be affected by.... just a thought.
webcraft
Well-Known Member
Re: Do a course and set sail ?
[ QUOTE ]
If you're lucky they do Dazed Kipper, and they're off... ready to take on the world. And they've got a piece of paper telling them they're the man!
[/ QUOTE ] Day Skipper is a teaching course that prepares you to "skipper a yacht in familiar waters by day". That is all it does . . . anyone who thinks it makes them 'the man' is an idiot. It is however a valuable starting point and very much better than no training at all for the inexperienced new yacht purchaser - of which there seem to be more and more.
A yachtmaster exam is a little trickier . . . I don't believe all those old salts like 'Small Boat Champ' who say they don't have time . . . a YM exam takes a maximum of 12 hours with one candidate, and can be done on your own boat.
So - why not put up or shut up? At least if you have done it (and presumably passed with flying colours) then you will have a bit more credibility when you tell us how rubbish it is.
- Nick
[ QUOTE ]
If you're lucky they do Dazed Kipper, and they're off... ready to take on the world. And they've got a piece of paper telling them they're the man!
[/ QUOTE ] Day Skipper is a teaching course that prepares you to "skipper a yacht in familiar waters by day". That is all it does . . . anyone who thinks it makes them 'the man' is an idiot. It is however a valuable starting point and very much better than no training at all for the inexperienced new yacht purchaser - of which there seem to be more and more.
A yachtmaster exam is a little trickier . . . I don't believe all those old salts like 'Small Boat Champ' who say they don't have time . . . a YM exam takes a maximum of 12 hours with one candidate, and can be done on your own boat.
So - why not put up or shut up? At least if you have done it (and presumably passed with flying colours) then you will have a bit more credibility when you tell us how rubbish it is.
- Nick