Qualifications and coding for Commercial services?

[CalmSkipper]

I'm probably a bit 'ahead of myself' here as I have so much to learn but I like keeping options open and I like targets.

I'm interested to know what qualifications I would need and what coding a 36 foot sailing yacht would require for me to take people out sailing on a commercial basis.

From the RYA website it appears a Coastal Skipper CoC with commercial endorsements is sufficient to operate up to 20 miles from a safe haven.

The boat is already coded RCD classification A. Apart from liabilty insurance would anything else be needed?

 

[albineer]

Information about MCA codes of practice for small vessels here
http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-survey___certification/mcga-dqs_st_cvs_code_vessel_safety.htm

 

[Shanty]

Not too sure of the detail here, as I've never been involved with this, but I think you may be confusing the RCD, which is mainly concerned with the design and construction of yachts, with the need for MCA coding for small commercial vessels, which is also concerned with the equipment of the vessel. Suggest you have a look at the MCA website.
This looks relevant

 

[TigaWave]

I've coded boats myself and worked as a commercial skipper.

Currently what you need is detailed in the blue code, including minimum crew and qualifications for those crew/skipper.

Best to get a copy of the code or read it through here
http://bluemoment.com/codeofpractice/
It seems like quite a bit but some is open to interpretation and discussion with your chosen compliance surveyor, pretty straight forward really, last boat took me about 10 days from start to finish and only a few £100 over normal safety requirements and equipment.

You will need part 1 registry and tonnage certificate, this is what took the time.

My standard insurance policy also covered me for charter work, as long as you inform them.

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

I think that is a little optimistic, the likley costs will have 3 zeros on the end not 2

With the best will in the world very few private leisure boats come close to coding standrad without quite a bit of cash spent.
The surveyor will need to see the boat out of the water, the survey itself will cost £500 or slightly more.

Skippeed charter and public liability are not normally free, it does not make sense for a lesisure policy to add commercial work for free. Aswith all things they take on more rsk and will expect to see some of the cash you no doubt intend to earn

The blue code is being replaced by the new harmonised code which in time will take over.

As shanty sais RCD code has no bearing on MCA code.

Sorry to sound like doom and gloom but personally I think coding is time consuming and expensive for first timers. Its a mine field and their are companies who speciuaisse in doing it for boat owners. It is worth doing yourself but dont let any one tel you its easy

 

[CalmSkipper]

Thanks for all the replies so far - as ever Scuttlebutt is a great oracle!

From the above it seems I may have mixed up my terminolgy so I'll check the precise wording when next on the boat. What I do know is that she is definately coded for charter- she passed the survey in April. What 'm unclear of is whether there is a different standard for the boat if I take fee paying passengers on board a skippered boat as oppose chartering it out to a competent skipper. From what I can see in the attachments the current coding is the same standard and should apply.

Also, can anyone confirm that the minimum qualification required by the skipper is Coastal Skipper CofC + commercial endorsements?

I have of course emailed MCA and RYA but of course I won't get a reply until at least monday!!

 

[Steve Clayton]

[ QUOTE ]
What 'm unclear of is whether there is a different standard for the boat if I take fee paying passengers on board a skippered boat as oppose chartering it out to a competent skipper.

[/ QUOTE ]
The answer should be yes; relates to items such as higher looped heads and the quality/material of flexible fuel lines.
[ QUOTE ]
What I do know is that she is definately coded for charter- she passed the survey in April.

[/ QUOTE ]
She may have passed the survey but the vessel requires subsequent registration (with YBDSA or similar) for charter; if registered then you will have what looks like a car tax sticker.( the old diamond shaped registration sticker was replaced a couple of years ago.) and she definitely needs to be on Part 1 registration with MCA - so if you have a "mark" somewhere on the boat with the referenece "O.N nnnnnn" and "O.T. 18.8" (or a similar number) then the vessel has been part 1 registered

Steve
www.seraph-sailing.com

 

[TigaWave]

Actually Doug it's what it cost me! certainly less than a 000.

My experience is from codeing a 1991 Bavaria in 2002, yes there is the cost of the survey ~ £45.00/m. But on a boat that is already in use and equiped with the normal safety gear, in date or in good condition, I don't see where the extra costs come from. It should never be into 000's maybe a few hundred + survey of £500.00

The only things I had to do for the codeing and wouldn't have done otherwise were to add an anti syphon valve and extra pipe work to one of the heads (3-4 hours £60) and turn the fore hatch round the other way (1 hour and a tube of Sikaflex). I also needed to add several signs for the benefit of charter guests who have no idea about water and sinking, printed on my computer and laminated.

Have a read through the code and you'll see there isn't much to it that is extra to normal safety equipment.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If the boat has changed hands the coding for commercial use lapses. Another £500 to the surveyor for the new coding. If you can find out who did the compliance survey last time, then you might negotiate a cheaper fee for the new certificate.

Compliance lasts five years (from memory) although you need to self certify that you've checked everything each interim year.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, can anyone confirm that the minimum qualification required by the skipper is Coastal Skipper CofC + commercial endorsements?


[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the Code
http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-mld-page.htm?textobjid=C423704CA95E9786#26
you will see that Annex 3 sets out 'manning' requirements and that a Coastal Skipper ticket is the minimum requirement for Category 3 or less. I would suggest however that the level of experience required for Coastal Skipper certification is barely adequate for commercial operations. You need to remember that you can find yourself operating with a crew of complete novices who may not only be able to contribute relatively little to the operation of the vessel, but may indeed be an active drain on your resources if seasick, injured by (say) spilling hot soup on themselves or just uncooperative. My point is that you don't want to be operating at anywhere near the limits of your own capacity and until you are completely confident that you can deal with whatever might happen (including rig failures, fires etc) you just shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Sailfree]

If you are chartering a boat you expect it to be a high standard and for charter coding (mostly safetyu equipment). I have bought 3 new boats and always allowed £10,000 on top of headline price to get it to charter coding standard.

It can be done for less if you provide ther labour yourself.

Charter markets are competitive and a well equiped boats gets repeat bookings and a cheap boat.........

 

[CalmSkipper]

Ken - Point well made and I absolutley agree. I'm currently building my experince up and am used to taking out friends who have little or no experience. I do have a background in trainign so that helps a bit but primarliy its about a robust and conservative interpretion of only taking on passages/conditions that 'you and your crew' can cope with. At the last bank holoday weekend for instance I wouldnt even put the sail up until we were out of the central SOlent as I know that with some many boats around of all sizes we couldn't have reacted had someone done something unpredictable (and it is of course best to assume they will!!). That aside everyone that has been on the boat is amazed how much they can get involved with and has loved it.

 

[Stevie_T]

Little known fact, but you can actually commercially endorse an RYA Day Skipper ticket, unless things have changed very reasonably. This took me by surprise when I was an instructor when a guy did just this so that he could legally skipper a dive boat.
Obviously limited practical use on a sailing boat 'Familiar waters by day' and all that.
However far all practical purposes a D.O.T. Coastal Skipper ticket is the minimum. This is the examined version easily confusd with the Coastal Skipper coarse completeion certificate, whole different ball game.
I do wish they would rename one of them to make it more clear.

 

[scotty123]

"easily confusd with the Coastal Skipper coarse completeion certificate, whole different ball game."

This is simply an assessment by the instructor who taught you!
Similar arrangement to DaySkipper practical - hardly likely to fail you unless you sink the boat!
Not worth the paper its written on.