QE2 hits Brambles

byron

byron

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Next to the Goodwins the Brambles must be the best known sand bank on the UK. The QE2 grounded on it today, to add insult to injury S'ton is her base port.

They blame strong winds, yeh reight, every seaman down there knows she needs 12 knots to safely round them... I bet she was doing less.
 
Byron,

It may be the best known sandbank, but it doesn't stop us having to pull people off it pretty much every weekend, irrespective of tide or wind!

I have a theory that sand is magnetic to GRP - looks like it works with steel too. Perhaps the Brambles is really the UK's Bermuda Triangle?
 
Wasn't that blowy yesterday, Bramblemet showed gust to F6, now I wouldn't want to be out in an F6, but should be nothing for QEII

The theory is that the ship was very upset at leaving S'ton for last last time, so this was her way of showing her dis pleasure. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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Byron,

It may be the best known sandbank, but it doesn't stop us having to pull people off it pretty much every weekend, irrespective of tide or wind!


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I know those waters as well as anyone, I was an aux coastguard at Calshot for many years. Those who go on are usually people cutting corners, inexperience or plain just not paying attention to their course.
They aren't vessels with at least 5 Master Mariners on the bridge plus maybe two pilots. This incident will be purely down to not having the required 12 knots she needs to round the bank down to Calshot Spit.
 
Very sad to see her go. In 1969 I was living and working in Southampton and supplied the electronic calculators for the pursers office prior to her maiden voyage.

Now after some 6 million nautical miles, 25 times round the world, over 800 transatlantic crossings and 2.5 million passengers the old girl is off to another life. Bon Voyage.
 
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Byron,

Totally agree. Have come damn close to doing the same with a VLCC once, that was enough!

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It is a tight swing there for a large vessel, seems worse coming in than going out, at least I always found it so.
 
Bad sarstard that I am, I watched her coming in on AIS and she was indeed moving VERY slowly, certainly nothing like 12 knots. Soton VTS was very quiet on the matter - I presume that they were using a private vhf channel.
 
Nothing sad about that had I thought of it I may have watched. SPR in my day was on Channel 12 but they would NEVER give any instruction to the vessel. The decisions always remain with the Master even though the Pilot has the Conn.
 
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Nothing sad about that had I thought of it I may have watched. SPR in my day was on Channel 12 but they would NEVER give any instruction to the vessel. The decisions always remain with the Master even though the Pilot has the Conn.

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Hi, sorry if I'm confused but would not the pilot be in charge of the vessel at this point? How would the master be in control if he has to do what the pilot says? Or am I misunderstanding the whole master/pilot relationship?
 
The Master is always in command of his ship, even when a pilot is on board.

The pilot is an advisor with local knowledge and, in practice, the Master will accept the pilots advice but he is still, ultimately, in command of the vessel.

In the event of an accident or other enquiry the Master will be required to show that he acted reasonably and carefully in acting on the pilots advice and there may be occasions where the Master, if aware that the pilot may be putting the vessel at risk would over-ride the pilots instructions - indeed, if he did not do so he could be held liable and lose his Certificate of Competency.

Any other certificated officer on the bridge at the time could also be held liable if they did not act when aware of a risk to the vessel. Such action might simply be declaring their concern at the earliest practical moment - and, believe me, as a junior officer it takes balls to tell the old man or the pilot that you think they are wrong !

Also worth bearing in mind that, certainly in the UK, a Pilot will also have a certifcate of competency to protect.

As an aside, I remember from my tanker days, sailing with a foreign cadet who was undertaking UK marine training to be a pilot in his own country. A year later he climbed up the ladder to pilot the 35,000 ton tanker I was then on /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Tony has given an accurate summation of the Master/Pilot relationship so I have nothing to add other than to relate an incident when I was a small boy aboard my father's ship.

We were picking our way into an obscure Arab 'port' on the Red Sea when there was a slight judder. My Father rushed across the Bridge took hold of the Pilot dragged him to the Wing and threw him overboard. REALLY! actually tossed him into the sea. We then felt our way in on a Lead Line. There were no facilities in this 'port' so we dropped anchor and unloaded into dhows with our own derricks. Once we were secure I heard my Dad retching in his toilet. The memory is as vivid today as if it was yesterday yet over a half century has passed by.
The Cargo was for the local Sheik who looked after us Royally and never a word spoken about the incident.
Of course these days it couldn't happen but my old man was old school and regarded himself as slightly below God when in command. (Master under God)
 
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