QE2 Flag of Convenience...

[EdEssery]

Last Saturday as we came up Southampton Water, we passed the QE2 leaving... (shortly after the Oriana)

I was somewhat surprised to see a Red Duster flying from her flag halliards as I interpreted it as a courtesy flag which implied she must have been reflagged to a flag of convenience. I was interested to see where she was now registered as we passed her stern.

As you can see, her home port is still Southampton. So...

Is Southampton no longer part of the UK? or
Are Cunard's standards falling? Note she is wearing no ensign at her stern at all, or
Have I got something wrong here?

Ed

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[bedouin]

She's not wearing any ensign so she must be British flagged.

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[Guest]

Most shipping carries ensign at ensign staff on poop deck. Some - not many comply with the tradition of transfer of ensign to Yard halyard once un-berthed ....... seems you have spotted one such vessel.
Most vessels once lines are off will drop the ensign and fold away to locker ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Birdseye]

She's flying a flag of convenience anyway. She's about as British as Osama. Made in France, owned by a company that is not longer British, largely foreign crew, mainly foreign passengers.

The name's British though.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[plombier]

I think you will find that the QE2 was actually built on Clydebank by John Brown & Co. Dont think that's part of France yet.

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[Guest]

Clydebank - correct - but she aint no Brit ship owned anymore ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Birdseye]

Quite right - I was thinking of the newest Queen!

Mind you, Clydebank seems pretty foreign to me. Cant understand the natives and the food (boiled sheeps stomach and deep fried Mars bars) is weird. Not only that, but the natives are fairly hostile to visitors from the South

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[Mirelle]

Full marks! Same applies to yachts, of course...

Absolutely correct, as we have come to expect from you, Nigel! ;-)

The QE2 being perhaps one of the not many ships around with enough warm bodies to undertake the task and enough old school style on the bridge to require it to be done.

It is strictly incorrect to fly the ensign from the staff when under way. When all yachts were gaff rigged such a thing was unheard of - the ensign was flown from the peak of the gaff. Look at any picture of a square rigger and that is where you will find it. But when pointy headed mainsails appeared they caused a problem - no gaff, hence no peak to fly the ensign from. So people who enjoy flying ensigns under way started to fly them from the ensign staff under way...

Sic transit gloria mundi...

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[MainlySteam]

Re: Full marks! Same applies to yachts, of course...

Intriguing Nigel and Mirelle, I was not aware of that.

I see in Ed's photo that it is being flown on the port side - is there any relevance in that? (I assume because courtesy flag goes on starboard, but just guessing).

What would be the view if the ensign was flown on a "pointy headed mainsail" yacht from a halyard on the spreaders, and if acceptable any particular side? (You can see me working up to frightening the natives by doing so can't you /forums/images/icons/smile.gif).

John

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[Dominic]

Tell Me More..

I am probably wrong but as I understand it the Merchant Shipping Act of 1895 says that a British Registered Ship should fly its ensign on entering or leaving a foreign port and when meeting another vessel at sea.

Now what is this about where it should be flown from.

Please explain for the ignorant.

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[Guest]

IMHO and this is how I understood it ..

When in MN ..... I was advised that .......

ensign is shown from Poop deck staff while alongside. When underway and required at sea etc. to fly from main cross trees. BUT as most ships carry the ensign folded away in a locker on poop somewhere (unofficially of course) it became common practice to only fly at poop deck staff.

Any flag or brgee etc. of the vessel or owners etc. should always be inferior flown to that of the Courtesy flag ... eg the Flag of the country visited if not home country. That means that Courtesy goes on stbd outer halyard and highest where applicable, house flag etc. on port halyard and NOT higher than the courtesy etc.

Due to operational details on commercial shipping - a lot of traditions have had to go by the board as there are not enough hands to cover all ........ sad but true .....

When I started in 72 ... it was average of 45 on a tanker etc., when I left ships bridge in 89 .... we were down to 14 - 15 if lucky ....... my last vessel was 440,000 tins and 14 total crew. So who to go all way to poop and then back to monkey island .....etc.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Cornishman]

Re: Full marks! Same applies to yachts, of course...

So people who enjoy flying ensigns under way started to fly them from the ensign staff under way...

... unless you are sailing a ketch or yawl in which case you wear the ensign at the mizzen mast head, usually on a short stick.

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[Mirelle]

Photo is misleading- ensign at peak of the gaff

The QE2's mast, being, as one might expect, a pukka job, has not merely a pair of cross trees, but also a GAFF (!) from which the ensign is flown.

This link is to another picture which shows the mast in close up (in US waters...)

http://www.qe2.org.uk/images/mast.jpg

The grander sort of steamship used to have a short gaff on the mainmast for this very purpose; the QE2 must be one of the last, unless the QM2 does.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[MainlySteam]

Re: Photo is misleading- ensign at peak of the gaff

Thanks for that Mirelle.

I have a 6 foot long gaff which we use when fishing - maybe if I put that in the staff socket on the transom I would be closer to doing the correct thing /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

Regards

John

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