Pwllheli Depths are Harbour Authority Liable for Woefully Innaccurate Information

[savageseadog]

The curse of Pwllheli rises again! I needed a temporary cheap mooring, in Wales for a month or two so did some phoning around and was informed by Pwllheli Harbour master that there was a mooring we could use for our 2.5m draft fin keel yacht. We were in fact told quite categorically that there was 3m plus at the mooring and there was no problems using it. After tying up for the night at the marina we went to tie up at the mooring next morning only to find that on the high tide of 5m there was only 6m of water, ie there was only 1m of water at low tide! I find it unbelievable that such poor information should be given to yachtsmen by someone who's supposed to know. Had I not checked everything out there could have been a significant probability of damage had we dried down between the piles. I had to return to the marina which is now going to cost a significant sum.

Does the forum think I could claim the difference in cost from the harbour authority until I can move to a different place? Bear in mind I wouldn't have gone there in the first place had I known the true facts and like any yachtsman my time and opportunity of moving the boat is limited by many factors so I'm stuck for a bit. The marina is council owned as is the harbour and its moorings, the marina will be a separate cost centre I would imagine.

 

[prv]

As the inhabitants of a legal group I used to read are fond of saying, the answer to "can I sue?" is nearly always "yes". The question is whether you are likely to win.

I don't know what the likely answer is here. If you're able to post to Usenet, then the abovementioned group is uk.legal.moderated and generally gives as good advice as you're likely to get without paying a lawyer.

I do know that the principle applies that you should minimise a cost before claiming that someone else should pay it. So if there's another mooring which is suitable, more expensive than the original but cheaper than the marina, you'd be expected to use that and claim the difference, rather than rack up the cost by staying in the marina and then demand that your opponent pay it.

It may well be that a credible, well-researched notice that you are considering legal action would elicit a discount on the marina cost that you and they are happy with, since the marina and moorings are ultimately the same organisation. I wouldn't expect to get the marina berth for the same price as the pile mooring, since the marina is a greater benefit. You need to come in at a level in the council that's high enough up the org chart to be responsible for both moorings and marina - no point talking to someone who either hasn't the authority to make the marina discount or doesn't have responsibility for the mooring cockup.

Spoken purely from the legal, adversarial point of view - whether that's the right approach I leave up to others.

Pete

 

[Searush]

Just a few thoughts around the general issues;

Did you check the depth with a line or just your E/s? Have you any offset on the E/s & did you take that into account?

In soft ground & strong tides, depths will vary frequently, if the HM is working off a chart, it only shows depths when last measured, you surely have a duty of care to check advice based on historic data. Did the HM make a comment suggesting he had recently checked or measured the depth? Have you any witnesses or written info that you can use in evidence?

How much will legal action cost if you lose? If you can afford that, why the heck are you fussing over a few weeks marina charges?

Sure you are annoyed, but legal action???? Suit yourself.

 

[Allan]

Does the question really have to be "should I sue?" (I don't think that was the original question). Maybe a polite, friendly conversation with the Harbourmaster may sort things out to everyones satisfaction?
Allan

 

[TSB240]

I have piles for free

My spot is free till April

Pile 13/14

Good deep water at low tide.

Kipper Stu is usually in marina now so his spot might be available with his permission.

Any sub letting has to be agreed with HM so dont go upsetting him

At least he didnt put you here

http://www.ybw.com/forums/picture.php?groupid=58&pictureid=2357

 

[Juggler7823]

Mooring

PM sent

 

[Heckler]

The curse of Pwllheli rises again! I needed a temporary cheap mooring, in Wales for a month or two so did some phoning around and was informed by Pwllheli Harbour master that there was a mooring we could use for our 2.5m draft fin keel yacht. We were in fact told quite categorically that there was 3m plus at the mooring and there was no problems using it. After tying up for the night at the marina we went to tie up at the mooring next morning only to find that on the high tide of 5m there was only 6m of water, ie there was only 1m of water at low tide! I find it unbelievable that such poor information should be given to yachtsmen by someone who's supposed to know. Had I not checked everything out there could have been a significant probability of damage had we dried down between the piles. I had to return to the marina which is now going to cost a significant sum.

Does the forum think I could claim the difference in cost from the harbour authority until I can move to a different place? Bear in mind I wouldn't have gone there in the first place had I known the true facts and like any yachtsman my time and opportunity of moving the boat is limited by many factors so I'm stuck for a bit. The marina is council owned as is the harbour and its moorings, the marina will be a separate cost centre I would imagine.

I believe you tied up on my mooring (the end one?) I draw 1.6mtrs and there is usually half a metre under me at lo springs. That is measured with a bit of line and weight so is spot on!
So any more than 2 mtrs and you are pushing it!
Stu
PS I will be putting the lines back on on the 26th March.

 

[Heckler]

Just a few thoughts around the general issues;

Did you check the depth with a line or just your E/s? Have you any offset on the E/s & did you take that into account?

In soft ground & strong tides, depths will vary frequently, if the HM is working off a chart, it only shows depths when last measured, you surely have a duty of care to check advice based on historic data. Did the HM make a comment suggesting he had recently checked or measured the depth? Have you any witnesses or written info that you can use in evidence?

How much will legal action cost if you lose? If you can afford that, why the heck are you fussing over a few weeks marina charges?

Sure you are annoyed, but legal action???? Suit yourself.

The bottom is scoured sand, nice and hard, Ive prodded it with a pole! The "dredger" coulndt cut thro the layer when it was working last summer!
Stu

 

[savageseadog]

I believe you tied up on my mooring (the end one?) I draw 1.6mtrs and there is usually half a metre under me at lo springs. That is measured with a bit of line and weight so is spot on!
So any more than 2 mtrs and you are pushing it!
Stu
PS I will be putting the lines back on on the 26th March.

No we didn't tie up, anyone watching would have thought we were going for a five minute jolly round the harbour.

As to my use of the word "claim" in relation to money I was going to discus things with HM (who seems a nice enough chap by the way) and needed to know what people thought and . Legals is not where I want to go but just need to know where I stand.