Purchasing a used 40' - 45' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

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crazycanucks

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Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

My wife and I, along withour two sons - 13 and 15 are looking to purchase a used 40 - 45 footer out of a mediterranean charter fleet (though this is not our sole avenue for purchase - but we are leaning toward it). We then plan on cruising the area for a couple of years. Has anybody bought a time expired boat (read: outlived it's useful life - no longer sparkly in new condition) from a charter fleet, or know of anybody who has? We're considering something from the Jeanneau range - and anything up to about ten years old.
We have done the pros and cons thing and have come up with many arguments - hard usage, poor maintenance, inexperienced crew (sometimes), well used engines versus: younger boat, well maintained, suitable for area, cheaper (sometimes). Surely these boats are making it out of fleets and into the hands of real people.
Understand also that we are not necessarily after 'a deal' - though obviously we don't plan on throwing our money away. We'd like to cruise the Med for a couple of years so this is where we would like to initially purchase. It doesn't mean that we have ruled out the posibility of purchasing on the N. American east coast and sailing acoss - or of even having a boat transported over (this is not the most likely option though).
Many have offered advice and most N. American comments have all been on the negative - especially regarding the brand and the Jeanneau range (which we really are quite impressed by.)

If you have... or know of anyone who has bought out of a charter fleet - or just feel like throwing your two cents in.... we look forward to your response.

Cheers
John and Bobbie
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

Not much wrong with ex-charter boats. Yes they've had a hard life but they've probably been regularly maintained. Can't see anyway that regular use in the med/caribbean can be worse for a boat than spending most of the time lying idle around the UK.
My recommendation for you would be an Oceanis 40 or 44cc. Built heavier than the standard aft cockpit and more suitable for liveaboard than most ex-charter. Unless of course you can afford a cat!
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

Happy Christmas. You are a bit late now for end of season sales from charter companies, but most will know what boats will be available at the end of the 2008 season. I bought a Jeanneau 45,2 from this company in Turkey. They look after their boats very well, and I have been very satisfied with my purchase. At present they only have a 1999 42.2 available in Turkey, but I suggest you talk with them to see what else will come available next year. PM me if you want any more details.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

Be aware, that a charter-boat normallt has a different lay-out from a cruising boat in the sense that a charter boat has as many berth as possible to have as many as possible people on board, that the boat is used to sail in daytime, but to spend the night in port. As a consequence of the last point, there are often no berth to sleep in properly when under sail. Your being with four people means that you need at least four berth to sleep in properly when the ship is leaning when under sail. In the Med this may not be a big problem, but as soon as you get out of it, the situation changes.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

The links provide good advice. I have just taken over a charter boat - but with a difference. I bought the boat under a management deal 7 years ago. It has just finished its contract plus one more year. As other have noted, charter boats are well looked after (generally) have a functioning inventory and can be bought up to 20% below a private boat. We are planning to spend £3k (on a 37 footer) to bring it up to as new condition plus a bit of upgrading. Have just received the documentation mentioned in the other threads - deregistration, VAT receipt and Bill of Sale. All straightforward if you follow the rules (or pay a Greek lawyer!).

Turkey is outside the EU so you are more limited in where you can use the boat and then sell it. Take advice if you want to buy there.

Boats in the Ionian generally have an easier life than in the Aegean. Less wind, shorter hops between harbours etc.

A UK based broker is useful. Yachtfractions www.yachtfractions.co.uk always have a good selection.

My view, definitely worth going down this route if you want a good value yacht already in the Med, but the usual caveats apply!

Good luck
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

Quote "Turkey is outside the EU so you are more limited in where you can use the boat and then sell it. Take advice if you want to buy there."

I bought my boat VAT paid in Turkey, therefore no problem. Quite a few charter boats in the EU are not VAT paid.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

Yes, but the difference is that there is no VAT in Turkey, so ex charter boats (or any boat that has not had VAT paid in the EU) will be subject to VAT when it enters the EU (except in restricted circumstances if the owner is not an EU citizen). You can, however, keep your non-VAT paid boat in Turkey.

Within the EU charter boats that are owned as a business may not have VAT paid on them until sold to a private (ie not VAT registered) owner. In Greece the situation is in fact much more simple. If the boat is registered on the Greek register as a charter boat and can show it is used commercially, no VAT is due until it comes off the register. That is the process I referred to, and is straightforward if you buy direct from an operator or through a broker. The VAT receipt you get is acceptable across the EU.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

I think it really does matter which charter company you buy from. Not all charter companies are equals... As has been said above; many charter boats are very well maintained and could be a much better buy than a poorly maintained private yacht. But I have seen some operations that I would not accept a boat from, for any money. The company you mention above, Sun Charter, is an example of one the best operations I have seen. They have lots of maintenance staff that are constantly crawling over those boats and I would expect them to always be in a very good maintenance state. Similarly, Moorings has a very impressive maintenance operation and could be a very good second buy.

Now, without going into details; you would have to offer me A LOT OF MONEY to accept an ex-Sunsail boat.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

[ QUOTE ]
I bought my boat VAT paid in Turkey, therefore no problem. Quite a few charter boats in the EU are not VAT paid.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, do not let 'VAT unpaid' discourage you. It means you can get some very good prices in Turkey, obviously much better than you could get inside the EU. Then you have a choice;

1. Either import the boat into the EU and pay the VAT. This would normally mean that you have not paid any more anyway than if you would have bought in the EU.

2. Keep the boat outside the EU and cruise the fantastic Turkish coast and the Levant Eastern Med for some time. Then you can eventually sail back into the EU and pay your VAT. The benefit with this is that your VAT payment is always based on 'market value', thus the longer you wait to import your boat, the VAT payable will be lower.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

The man is called Crazycanuc and lives in Calgary, so he is most likely a canadian and then the whole VAT-issue does not apply to him.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

Indeed, as a Canadian buying a Turkish non-VAT boat, he will have 18 months VAT-free cruising under the "temporary importation" rules. To restart a subsequent 18 month VAT free period, he could hop back to Turkey, or Croatia or over to Tunisia - no minimum outside EU time is specified, altho' it may smooth things if he didn't clear back into the same EU port / country.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

Really appreciate the responses. Especially about the VAT issue as that was going to be the next question. We are all tri-nationals (Canadian, New Zealand and British) so for the purposes of tax avoidance we'd probably enter on either the Canadian or NZ passports.
 
Re: Purchasing a used 40\' - 45\' out of a Mediterranean charter fleet.

Thanks David from Jersey. Nice to see you're browsing both forums that we've posted on. Really appreciate the positive from you and others. Nice to have a balance rather than mostly negative.
 
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