Puchasing abroad - Netherleands, surveys, brokers et al.

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Hi all,
Im likely to be making a purchase in Holland in the next week or so.
Ill ensure the broker has a seperate client account for the deposit. VAT is documented, as is RCD/CE status etc.

Are there any things I need to consider?

Im looking for a Dutch surveyor around the area of Lemmer, anyone I should seek out, or watch out for?

Has anyone had expereince of claiming against a dutch surveyor after something went wrong post sale?

Any ideas on what I should be paying (in Euros) for a pre-purchase survey on a 39 foot yacht?

Many thanks. As if it wasnt daunting enough buying ones first yacht, doing this overseas seems to add an extra degree of concern to the vcoices in my head :-)

I am trying to enjoy this process - honestly.

Thanks
M
 
I bought my first boat in holland and trailed it home. cranage out was 40euro. cranage at this end was 250. people were great and relaxed about it and knew their stuff. i did my own survey and would buy again in holland.
go for it
 
To find a Dutch surveyor, you could go on the website of the International Institute of Marine Surveying, and go on their search function. Holland is at the bottom of the country list, as " <u>The</u> Netherlands", then select "small craft surveys" in the "Experience" block. There's about half a dozen or so surveyors listed: as the IIMS is UK-based, they should all carry PI insurance and undertake regular "professional development" courses, as with any good UK surveyor.

On the other hand, given the crash in the exchange rate, it may be cheaper to get an East Coast UK surveyor to go across and have a look at her.
 
I would strongly recommend that you us a UK surveyor under UK law.

I am currently in the process of making a claim against a Dutch surveyor under HISWA, their trade T&Cs. My UK solicitor has advised that if the claim was under UK law I would have a very good case. I am currently paying to find out if I have a case under Dutch law which looks less likely. I should know more in a week of two. But the nub of the issue is for how long claims can be made following the initial survey.

The rest of the process of buying over there was straight forward and trvel to/from a doddle.

Whilst I appreciate that you will be trying to keep all associated costs down in the purchase process, I would recommend you pay the extra to get a UK surveyor flown out etc. The broker/owner should be able to arrnage a suitbale lift out for inspection purposes.

The costs of getting a UK surveyor out there are about the same as I'm paying to find out if I have a case under Dutch law! Never mind the amount I'm trying to claim.

If you need a recommendation for a surveyor PM me, or if you just want more info.

I trust you will have great sailing.
 
Crikey, Im sorry to hear about the problems you are experiencing Boat44.

It seems most of the surveyors are HISWA and IRYS affiliated, however a google on IRYS doesnt give any results that are relevant.

It makes me wonder what good is a IRYS if there isnt even a visible governing body I can find out about. Unless Im giving up too quickly on searching for IRYS.

Any other comments?
Thanks
M
 
I bought in Holland in 1997 - the law and practice has not changed since then.

You should be aware that the normal contract for sale in Holland is very explicit on the process of the offer, subject to survey, through the survey, and what you can get off for undeclared defects, through to completion.

1st Point: If something is faulty, or doesn't work - even down to a duff battery, the seller has to make amends. This makes it important for the seller to prepare a list of faults, which then of course cannot be taken into account in any post survey adjustments. So if a major problem is disclosed, and you then make an offer, and the survey then shows that it will cost a lot more to put right, it will be excluded from any negotiation.

2nd Point: If the list of faults shown up by the survey exceed 10% of the survey price, then all bets are off - deposit can be returned, and a new offer process initiated.

IMHO this is a good system, and is fair to both buyer and seller. Your Surveyor really needs to be aware of these provisions, because he really ends up as the arbiter. eg if you find the wind instruments don't work - and they were not declared, you will get an allowance. In my case, as they were 20 years old, the allowance was not too great - £200 if I remember correctly. (I already new they were not working, but they were not declared - so it cost him)

When I subsequently sold the boat here 9 years later, I adopted the same disclosure basis in a section of the contract, which precluded the buyer coming back on anything that was mentioned.

Your email mentions a Pre purchase survey. Unless you think there are significant worries that you want to have a pre purchase survey done - ie because declared faults have an unknown cost, then go ahead, otherwise the survey is part of the contractual process and once started you are on the hook to complete..... BE AWARE.....
 
Chris Robb, thanks for that, interesting reading for sure.

If i go ahead with the survey it will be part of the contractual process.
 
Hi

I purchased a boat in lemmer and recomend you use a dutch surveyor under dutch law As stated in a prvious mail the terms of sale in NL are very tight and all faults have to be declare or put right. Also I doubt any reputable dutch broker would agree to a nsale under UK law, why should he? you are buying in NL where UK law means nothing!!

the point of my mail is to recomend keeping the boat for a while in Holland after you purchase it. By accident we kept the boat in Lemmer for 2 seasons and thoroughly enjoyed the experience and cruised as far as Denmark as well as exploring the inland seas
Enjoy
 
Hello there I have bought last 4 boats in Holland, last one through Sailing World in Lemmer funnily enough. Have had nothing but good experiences but as has been pointed out the procedure is different.
I am also a surveyor and have carried out many surveys in Holland for UK buyers over the years so PM me if you would like any more advice.
 
I bought my boat in Holland 4 years ago and used a surveyor based in Enkhuizen which is across the Ijsselmeer from Lemmer. I found him very helpful and thorough and he provided the survey report in English, which was then accepted by my insurers in the UK. He also answered a number of follow up questions promptly. PM me if you want his contact details.
 
When all the dust has settled I will post an the forum what I have found out re UK / Dutch law and surveys.

Probably wont be in the timescales of your purchase though as nothing seems to move quickly.

Frustrating but at least I know what the problem with the boat is and how to fix it. I would prefer to spend the money on yacht repairs than loose it in an Icelandic bank! Thats what I tell myself anyway.
 
You could do a lot worse than take a cup of their very nice coffee at Sailing World on the quay in Lemmer - Mr de Snoek will be there no doubt. He can give you local colour etc and maybe put you right on some of the tricks of the trade.

By the way, I bought my boat from him some 11 years ago. No problemos...

PWG
 
Having bought a boat in the UK and in the Netherlands, I am indifferent as to what surveyor to use as long as you specifically agree what the survey will cover!
(living in NL now and speaking the language, I would probably go local)

In the Netherlands, it is not uncommon to have a surveyor that focuses on main components, i.e. hull, spars, engine, rudder, ONLY. The one we used (PM me for names) did not notice a missing VHF, a missing GPS and several other minor faults - which in total added up.

The professional Dutch brokers (balance of good and bad not differetn to others parts of the world) will be happy to adjust the sale/purchase agreement if buyer/seller agree. I bought ours FULL subject to survey (with renegotiation post survey). If you do not mention anything it will be standard HISWA terms as stated above - but they can be changed.

Cases against surveyors are a futile exercise unless there was GROSS negligence, they have more backdoors than your boat has hatches.

Be aware that the actual language skills in professional terms may not be as solid as the colloquial use over the phone havesignalled (I learnt Dutch for that very reason, too many misunderstandings in a country where people generally overrate their command of foreign languages ;-) )

Having used his services 12 years ago, I know that this gentleman http://www.paulstevenssurveys.com/ travels to the Netherlands a lot for surveys and is acquainted to local rules. He did a very detailed, very helpful survey for us, with hints fro repairs and future risks. Well worth it.

Ah, last hint, contrary to what you hear from the Dutch surveyors on first contact, their prices vary and are negotiable ;-)

And, since prices right now are under a lot of pressure, I hope that your offer (which might have concluded a contract, as Dutch law provides for full validity of verbal agreements) has been a good step below the asking price, which is normally pretty inflated in the Netherlands.
 
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