Public support for the law NB

Robin

Robin

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A week or so go I reported some youths vandalising a motorbike (they had apparently stolen it too) outside my house, the police came and actually caught them in the act. I gave a written statement but am still required to go to court as a prosecution witness, OK I can live with that.

However, I have just had my witness summons, the case is being held at Sherbourne Youth Court 40mls from where I live in Poole and I am required there at 9.30am, although I may have to wait several hours for the case to be called. Poole/Bournemouth is pretty big, the culprits were locals, so why is the case held 40mls away? Public transport would be a real pain to use, so it is a good job I drive, some of my neighbours no longer do. Allowing for early morning traffic it is a 1.5hr drive and along a route peppered with speed cameras. I wonder too how the accused will get there, will they steal another vehicle or perhaps they won't bother to go at all. Then again maybe I could give them a lift!

I can now see why people ignore what is going on and walk on by!

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As far as I am aware you will be able to claim travel expenses at least.
I have only been to give evidence in once. Waited for hours, then the Sherrif threw the case out. As I was there as an "expert witness" (having stitched the victim's ear back on) I got travelling expenses and a fee for my time. In front of me in the queue at the office where they pay out expenses was the entire extended family of the ned who was the accused, all claiming travelling expenses!


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An employee of mine was a witness following a break in at our offices and could have claimed travel expenses and loss of earnings. I covered the costs myself, on principle, as it was an ex employee who tried to steal all our gear.

If you were the only witness it's quiet likely that you won't even get called. The "youths" will plead not guilty as they think you won't be bothered to attend the court. When you turn up as a witness they will be advised, by their solicitor, to plead guilty in order to get a softer sentence. I say all this based on my experience. We "wasted" a morning at Barnet youth court but the lad was fined and given comunity service. He changed his plea from not guilty to guilty when he saw we were there. The DS on the case told me that is what always happens, it's part of the game.



<hr width=100% size=1> "It is a pleasure to give advice, humiliating to need it, normal to ignore it"
 
I was one of several witnesses but had the best view. The others have not even been asked to attend. I can apparently claim 25p/mile and about £2 for food/drink but I'm self employed and cannot easily prove direct loss of earnings so that's not an option. The point though was why does it need to be 40mls away, that is only ever going to put witnesses off attending, there are courts in Poole and Bournemouth too, that's where everone, the accused, police and witnesses come from!





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Re: You should

consider yourself lucky the Police were interested. In the part of Hampshire where I live they don't want to know unless you present the perpetrators with all the documentation filled in , washed & shaved ready for processing. Of course its a different kettle of fish if your a motorist. Then your fair game.

Meridian TV carried a story a couple of weeks ago when a Southampton Newsagent, apparently adjacent to the local police station, was robbed. The owner dailed 999 & the police took 4 days to respond.

Now thats service worth paying 2 to 3 times the inflation rate on your Council Tax for!

Martin

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But we have thousands of antisocial yooves in Poole/Bournemouth plus Magistrates Courts, Crown courts, County Courts, even Family Court. And these two must have been to Sherbourne before anyway since they knew how to wear their baseball caps backwards.

Mindless idiots. I could almost understand if they had stolen the motorbike to get home (it was late at night) but they didn't want to ride it, just smash it up. In full view of several people and they were still stupid enough to be there doing it when 4 carloads of plod arrived. The bike was a write off I was told.

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Re: You should

About 2 years back I was outside the house when two nice young PCs came by on foot (!) and they said they were the new community policing people, we would be seeing them around in future. Well maybe the Chief Constable was going to move in nearby? No that was the first AND the last time I ever saw them, and I work from home so no lack of opportunity!

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The young criminals of today don't seem to have even half a brain cell.

My ex employee was employed with me for 10 weeks before bing sacked for poor time keeping and attendance, we're not talking a few minutes late... more like the odd day oe two late.

Him and his mates parked there stolen car in full view of the CCTV. In their statements they said they fled the building with in minutes because they hadn't expected.. the internal doors to be locked, or the alarm to go off and any way they couldn't see what they were doing and he could remember where the light switch was!!!!



<hr width=100% size=1> "It is a pleasure to give advice, humiliating to need it, normal to ignore it"
 
The young criminals of today don't seem to have only half a brain cell.

My ex employee was employed with me for 10 weeks before bing sacked for poor time keeping and attendance, we're not talking a few minutes late... more like the odd day or two late.

Him and his mates parked there stolen car in full view of the CCTV. In their statements they said they fled the building with in minutes because they hadn't expected.. the internal doors to be locked, or the alarm to go off and any way they couldn't see what they were doing and he could remember where the light switch was!!!!



<hr width=100% size=1> "It is a pleasure to give advice, humiliating to need it, normal to ignore it"
 
I suspect many more people do "walk on by" when they are treated in the way you were. The following is my memory of an incident reported on BBC R4 news a few weeks ago:
A pharmacist who owned his own chemist's shop was mugged on the premises and had his day's takings stolen. When Mr Plod eventually arrived the injured pharmacist said he knew who the lads were and could even give their addresses. He went to the dispensary and returned a few minutes later with a print out from his computer. Mr Plod promptly arrested him for contravening the Data Protection Act!

Why bother to help?

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Well the police know all about the Data Protection Act that's for sure. Mustn't offend Mr Huntley must we, murderers have rights too you know.

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Robin on 20/02/2004 14:40 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Public support for the Law? Well, there might be public support for justice, but the Law is not about justice is it? Its about fees for the lawyers, jobs for the police, and wallpaper for the Lord Chancellor. And above all, its about arcane legalism and hair splitting.





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Given that they were caught red-handed can you not simply swear an affidavit and claim that they were too far away to see their facial features (if this was the case)?

John

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I didn't see their faces, certainly couldn't now pick them out in an ID parade and I did make a written statement to say that they stayed put, beating up the bike until the police arrived.

I have a feeling as someone else has said that if they see that I turn up they will change their plea to guilty and I won't even be called. Just a wasted day and they had better get more than a slap on the wrists and a weeks holiday on a Tall Ship!

Robin



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A week! Thats a not very harsh! Two weeks holiday on a tall ship at the very least!!

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The reason you need to attend is basically we here in UK have an accusatorial system, whereby an allegation is made (by you having called the police), and the bike owner who did not give them permission to damage/steal the bike. In order for them to be convicted they either have to admit the offence....or their accusers....YOU....have to prove the case so that the jury/bench are satisfied of their guilt.

I'm not usually pro-european, but the system there is different....Investigatorial, whereby a presiding magistrate who generally speaking doesn't take any crap from anyone.......would ask these suspects what they had to say about the allegation and unless they gave some straight answers and showed some remorse would probably lock them up on the spot. Several weeks later they would be asked the same questions again, ad infinitum (you get the drift). This system usually lends itself to the occasional miscarraige of justice but does not involve members of the public dragging many miles to court. (CPS will pay your expenses). I don't know which system is preferrable, If I were ever a defendant I'd prefer ours.....

The law doesn't ask your support. The CPS and police involved probably couldn't care less whether you turn up or not, only difficulty is, next time it will be your bike/car/house/daughter.....It's a wonderful life......Go to court....then go sailing!

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Yes I think I understand that, and I wouldn't dream of not attending. What I really question though is why it has to be held in another town so far away when both the offence and the accused are local to Poole. So now there is additional cost for the police, the witnesses and even the accused and their families (paid for by the taxpayer!). How many of the police that were involved (8 came) will have to attend court ? Because of the distance, the police will be out for much longer than if the case were held locally - so now we have less police available for Poole, a vicious circle.



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