Propane versus butane

[Talbot]

At the moment I use Camping gas, and recognise thatt his is the most easily available in the EU. However, the advice I have been recieving for round world is that I should swap to Propane as that is easier to source in out of the way places.

OK this demands a different regulator, but does this also demand diferent burners for the cooker, does a 3.9kg of propane last as long as the slightly larger calor? and can I mix and match by continuing to use my camping gaz ? if so/how?

 

[sailorman]

At the moment I use Camping gas, and recognise thatt his is the most easily available in the EU. However, the advice I have been recieving for round world is that I should swap to Propane as that is easier to source in out of the way places.

OK this demands a different regulator, but does this also demand diferent burners for the cooker, does a 3.9kg of propane last as long as the slightly larger calor? and can I mix and match by continuing to use my camping gaz ? if so/how?

Propane deffo.
i have one propane & one camping gaz, only because i only have room for only one propane size cylinder.
i tend to keep the CG for temp supply only

 

[NickRobinson]

Disclaimer for when you blow up. I am not competent to make the following statements etc etc...... Now read on...

Appliances will run on either gas, sometimes with different pressure from the regulators but more modern ones use a single supply pressure.

Propane filled Camping Gaz cylinders (therefore Gaz un-modded regulators) burn indistinguishably from butane and, especially over this winter, keep working at 15% cost of Gaz

Nick

 

[SCMarine]

Propane and butane have different jet sizes. So if you are changing to propane you will need to not only change your regulator but also the jets on the cooker to enable the hotter burning temperatures

 

[sailorman]

Propane and butane have different jet sizes. So if you are changing to propane you will need to not only change your regulator but also the jets on the cooker to enable the hotter burning temperatures

My smev works perfectly on either gas with the correct regulator for that gas.
i believe it is now possible to get a reg that does both

 

[jimi]

I use propane and camping gaz interchangeably. However I prefer Propane as it cooks faster, lasts longer and is loads cheaper

 

[charles_reed]

My smev works perfectly on either gas with the correct regulator for that gas.
i believe it is now possible to get a reg that does both

Strictly speaking, as propane is at a higher pressure than butane, you should have a different regulator and orange high-pressure hose.
Modern cookers operate, with no changes, on either fuel.
In most European countries dedicated propane cylinders have a different thread to butane, but increasingly cylinders are being filled with some propane mixed with the butane.
Propane gasifies at lower temperatures than butane and below zero C is definitely preferable as well as producing a hotter flame.
In many European countries butane has a premium cost over propane as it's widely used in the leisure industry with customers ripe for fleecing, propane is used industrially and prices are more competitive.

 

[sailorman]

Strictly speaking, as propane is at a higher pressure than butane, you should have a different regulator and orange high-pressure hose.
Modern cookers operate, with no changes, on either fuel.
In most European countries dedicated propane cylinders have a different thread to butane, but increasingly cylinders are being filled with some propane mixed with the butane.
Propane gasifies at lower temperatures than butane and below zero C is definitely preferable as well as producing a hotter flame.
In many European countries butane has a premium cost over propane as it's widely used in the leisure industry with customers ripe for fleecing, propane is used industrially and prices are more competitive.

Quite so

 

[jdc]

At the moment I use Camping gas, and recognise thatt his is the most easily available in the EU. However, the advice I have been recieving for round world is that I should swap to Propane as that is easier to source in out of the way places.

OK this demands a different regulator, but does this also demand diferent burners for the cooker, does a 3.9kg of propane last as long as the slightly larger calor? and can I mix and match by continuing to use my camping gaz ? if so/how?

We swapped over last season for the same reason - going far afield.

Some answers I've gleaned from the mine of information and misinformation which abounds:

1. Pressures. It used to be the case that Butane was 28 mbar and Propane 37 mbar, but nowadays appliances are made (or more likely just tested) at 30 mbar irrespective of the gas. Given that regulators are probably only regulating to +/- 10% or worse that's probably not a problem. So a modern regulator such as from 'Gasboat' is designed to work with either gas.

2. Regulators and connectors. You have a choice between (a) regulators which go on the bottle and include the fitting to the bottle, or (b) a bulk-head mounted regulator. (b) then has high pressure hoses between it and the bottles, and these have different fittings for Butane and Propane. Gasboat bulkhead regulators are an example of (b).

3. Calorific value. This is about proportional to weight, so the propane lasts a shorter time (the same volume is in a bottle/cylinder, but less weight, 3.9 kg rather than 4.5 kg in the smallest Calor cylinders for example). I allow 200g per day, but you may do more or less cooking!

4. Manufacturers of cylinders / sellers of gas. Calor is a brand, it's not a gas. They do both propane and butane. So do most. Personally I like the Norwegian (made by AGA I think) composite cylinders which take 5kg of propane. They used to be sold by BP in garages, although the fitting is different between British and Norwegian ones.

Whichever you choose, the bigger the cylinder the lower the cost of the gas. The cost of a refill includes carriage, storage by the retailer and refilling time and retailer's cost of selling you a new cylinder all of which are pretty much independent of the size, so clearly are a higher proportion of the total when you have a smaller cylinder.

 

[onesea]

Does that mean you can get propane a locker camping gaz 904/907 bottle? Or is there a propane bottle that would fit?

The gas locker on my boat is designed to fit one 907 bottle I would love to switch to propane, its horrible when the gas "freezes" (stops gasing off or whatever) before the first kettle of the day has boiled.

Nelson Spinflow cooker will run on both they say so ok there just need to sort out a gas bottle that fits... Or wait till or if I modify the gas locket to larger size.

 

[Conachair]

At the moment I use Camping gas, and recognise thatt his is the most easily available in the EU. However, the advice I have been recieving for round world is that I should swap to Propane as that is easier to source in out of the way places.

OK this demands a different regulator, but does this also demand diferent burners for the cooker, does a 3.9kg of propane last as long as the slightly larger calor? and can I mix and match by continuing to use my camping gaz ? if so/how?

I got some GRP bottles in Carib which work a treat, believe there are some available over here now as well. Plus an adapter kit from socal , now to refill I just get a full bottle from somewhere and decant into the grp bottles. With a 28mB regulator propane seems a little cooler but there's a 30mB one waiting to get fitted. The gas you can get seems to vary anyway so maybe best to go with one setup and take what you can get. Grenada was about 50/50 propane/butane.

 

[ctva]

Changing from Gaz to Calor Propane 3.9kg cylinders was one of the first things that I did when we got the current Jeanneau SO back in 2005 for several reasons. First being cost of refills, second, cost of refills and third being use over the winter in Scotland. No change needed to the boat setup to the cooker (ENO) with a new hand tightening regulator so no need for a spanner to change cylinders and a new bit of flexiable pipe. The costs of the new bits were covered within two gas refills. Did I say cost was a major influence? Easy job which I did myself with advice from a CORGI marine experienced person.

 

[saltylegs]

Propane and butane have different jet sizes. So if you are changing to propane you will need to not only change your regulator but also the jets on the cooker to enable the hotter burning temperatures

No they don't its all down to appliance spec. and the required supply pressure.

 

[VicS]

Propane and butane have different jet sizes. So if you are changing to propane you will need to not only change your regulator but also the jets on the cooker to enable the hotter burning temperatures

No they don't its all down to appliance spec. and the required supply pressure.

I think you will find that many if not all modern appliances are designed to use either butane or propane at 30mb without alteration.

At one time appliances would have been designed for either butane at 29mb or propane at 37 mb. Having said that many have found that they could change gas without making any alteration to the appliance

It should be stated on a plate on the appliance what gas and what pressure it is designed for.

 

[charles_reed]

We swapped over last season for the same reason - going far afield.

Some answers I've gleaned from the mine of information and misinformation which abounds:

1. Pressures. It used to be the case that Butane was 28 mbar and Propane 37 mbar, but nowadays appliances are made (or more likely just tested) at 30 mbar irrespective of the gas. Given that regulators are probably only regulating to +/- 10% or worse that's probably not a problem. So a modern regulator such as from 'Gasboat' is designed to work with either gas.

2. Regulators and connectors. You have a choice between (a) regulators which go on the bottle and include the fitting to the bottle, or (b) a bulk-head mounted regulator. (b) then has high pressure hoses between it and the bottles, and these have different fittings for Butane and Propane. Gasboat bulkhead regulators are an example of (b).

3. Calorific value. This is about proportional to weight, so the propane lasts a shorter time (the same volume is in a bottle/cylinder, but less weight, 3.9 kg rather than 4.5 kg in the smallest Calor cylinders for example). I allow 200g per day, but you may do more or less cooking!

4. Manufacturers of cylinders / sellers of gas. Calor is a brand, it's not a gas. They do both propane and butane. So do most. Personally I like the Norwegian (made by AGA I think) composite cylinders which take 5kg of propane. They used to be sold by BP in garages, although the fitting is different between British and Norwegian ones.

Whichever you choose, the bigger the cylinder the lower the cost of the gas. The cost of a refill includes carriage, storage by the retailer and refilling time and retailer's cost of selling you a new cylinder all of which are pretty much independent of the size, so clearly are a higher proportion of the total when you have a smaller cylinder.

Is this the same as the Norwegian polyprop bottle ?

http://www.butagaz.fr/produits/bouteilles-gaz/cube-butane.aspx
http://www.butagaz.fr/produits/bouteilles-gaz/cube-propane.aspx

I've only found it in France and Portugal - 6kg for the same price as a 2.6kg Camping Gaz. No rust and takes up the same volume (certainly height) as the Camping Gaz cylinder and when full weighs the same. It's available in propane as well (red instead of blue) at the same price but lighter weight. Butagaz is, from memory, a Royal Dutch Shell subsidiary and operates, as well, in the Netherlands, Belguim and Luxembourg.
Better by far than Camping Gaz, who are purely a 3rd party, owned by Colemans' (who are probably going to pull out of the refillable market for lack of margin and too great a level of competition).

 

[Easticks28]

Propane and butane have different jet sizes. So if you are changing to propane you will need to not only change your regulator but also the jets on the cooker to enable the hotter burning temperatures

Been using Calor Propane for years in various caravans, with cookers, fridges(gas) water heaters etc. NEVER needed to re-jet appliances.

 

[vyv_cox]

Some answers I've gleaned from the mine of information and misinformation which abounds:

1. Pressures. It used to be the case that Butane was 28 mbar and Propane 37 mbar, but nowadays appliances are made (or more likely just tested) at 30 mbar irrespective of the gas. Given that regulators are probably only regulating to +/- 10% or worse that's probably not a problem. So a modern regulator such as from 'Gasboat' is designed to work with either gas.

2. Regulators and connectors. You have a choice between (a) regulators which go on the bottle and include the fitting to the bottle, or (b) a bulk-head mounted regulator. (b) then has high pressure hoses between it and the bottles, and these have different fittings for Butane and Propane. Gasboat bulkhead regulators are an example of (b).

All absolutely correct. Your 2 may require a little more information. It has been found in caravans and motorhomes having bulkhead regulators that some liquid hydrocarbon can get into the the high pressure hose between bottle and regulator. It will then dissolve some components of the rubber type, ultimately finishing up in the regulator, where it will prevent it from working. For this reason most suppliers offer both rubber and metal hoses, the latter at higher cost. On a boat it would seem that the opportunity for liquids to enter the hose is higher. Unless the regulator is far higher than the bottles, or there is a constant rise of hose to it at all angles of heel, it would be better to pay the extra for an all-metal hose.

 

[rivonia]

We have treveled many many miles and crossed both the Sth and Nth Atlantic. We use what ever is available. It bothers us not one bit if it is Propane or Butane they both work the same for us.

We would never pay the huge cost of Camping Gaz-it is a rip off. All the gas is LPG!

 

[laika]

Nelson Spinflow cooker will run on both they say so ok there just need to sort out a gas bottle that fits...

I can confirm that my Nelson Spinflo has worked just fine with butane (with a butane regulator), propane with a propane regulator, and propane with with the (30mbar?) Gasboat regulator

 

[Ariadne]

I've just got the gas suppliers to change the valve taps (Spanish to US type) on my two 15KG bottles and run on Propane not Butane as it's far easier to get. All new cookers will run on either gas you just need the right regulator for the gas, although I used my old F10 cooker on both no problem!

As said the bigger the bottle the cheaper the gas - I have two S/S cages hanging over the stern for my bottle storage and use.