proof of vat on older yacht in EU ?

[ferroboat]

Our yacht was built in england in 1983 and owned in the uk ever since by one owner untill we purchased her 5 yrs ago. We are going to cruise EU countries this summer, will the bill of sale be proof enough for vat status or do we have to obtain something else? Thanks in anticpation.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

As its a pre 1985 boat, VAT will have been deemed as paid. If the bill of sale shows the date, or has statement to that effect ( ..... built 1983) then that should be all you need. Carry the original as some authorities can get weird about copies. From reading other comments on this forum you are not likely to be asked for VAT status.

The RYA web site has lots of good information on VAT in the members section.

 

[PhillM]

I think that you can use an SSR part 3 certificate to show the age of the boat. The previous owner of my boat Paean (built 1961) had a SR3 certificate and came and went to France without problems. I have changed the registration (as required upon sale) and while I not put it to the test, I dont expect a problem when I do.

 

[vyv_cox]

Boats built before 1985 are deemed 'VAT paid' and need no evidence, although presumably some evidence of build date might prove it. In theory there is also a requirement that the boat should have been berthed in the UK at a later date (1990? don't remember exactly) but in reality you will never be asked for any of these documents.

We have cruised exclusively in Europe since 1997, living in Holland for seven years and cruising for half of every year since then, and have been asked to show:
- Registration document and passports fairly regularly,
- Insurance and ICC occasionally,
- VHF licence once
- Crew list sometimes in Greece. Schengen crew list requirements have been introduced since our time in Holland and I understand that significant attention is paid to it.
- Rare, quirky document requests from Greek port police.

 

[Boo2]

Our yacht was built in england in 1983 and owned in the uk ever since by one owner untill we purchased her 5 yrs ago. We are going to cruise EU countries this summer, will the bill of sale be proof enough for vat status or do we have to obtain something else? Thanks in anticpation.

If you only have the bill of sale then that's all you can use. It used to be the case that you could obtain a certificate showing VAT exemption from the relevant government dept. but they don't do that any more.

Your bill of sale showing a transaction between private individuals should be acceptable because that is the proof the transaction is not a VAT event. Ideally you would have the original VAT receipt for the boat when she was bought new by the first owner but AIUI your boat was bought before VAT was chargeable on yachts so you won't have that. In which case to have proof that the boat is VAT exempt you need both the following :

• Proof she was in use as private pleasure craft prior to 1 January 1985.
• Proof she was located in the EU on 31 December 1992.

I don't have any of this and I am not worrying about it either...

Boo2

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Boats built before 1985 are deemed 'VAT paid' and need no evidence, although presumably some evidence of build date might prove it. In theory there is also a requirement that the boat should have been berthed in the UK at a later date (1990? don't remember exactly) .....

From the RYA VAT FAQ download. This in fact modifies my post above as an additional piece of documentation to carry: -

Vessels that were in use as private pleasure craft prior to 1 January 1985, and that were in the EU on 31 December 1992, have deemed VAT paid status under EU Single Market transitional arrangements.
Any vessel granted this ‘deemed VAT paid’ status will retain it unless and there is a chargeable event (see A1).
The following documents are considered to be useful if it is necessary to prove the age and location of the vessel:
Age
marine survey registration document insurance documents ‘builders’ certificate
Location
receipt for mooring receipt for harbour dues dry dock records.
Please note that proof of the age alone is not sufficient. If the vessel was not lying in the EU on 31st December 1992, it was not entitled to claim deemed tax paid status. Therefore, when it next entered the EU it would have been classed as an import and as such VAT would have been due. That is why proof of the location of a vessel is also required.

 

[macd]

BlowingOldBoots' post above is the chapter and verse.

It is not the case that simply by virtue of age the vessel is "deemed VAT paid": the 31/12/92 condition must also be met (although a later date applies for some countries which joined the EU later). However, as Vyv suggests, actual policing of VAT status seems to be rare.

If the OP has no evidence of the vessel's location on 31/12/92, far be it from me to suggest that he brushes up on his desktop publishing skills. My evidence is nothing more than a letter of confirmation from a marina. It's real*, but I could knock out another in 10 minutes.

Incidentally there is pretty well no such thing as "proof" of VAT status, only evidence. VAT just doesn't work that way.

* or so I've always assumed: there's really no way of knowing.

 

[jonic]

There are details on my website at http://www.jryachts.com/VATandRCD.html