Professional Skipper's liability insurance...recommendations?

[[3889]]

I submitted a proposal to Pantaenius in Austria but have heard nothing other than a automated email. Their UK office don't deal with the policy.
Can anyone recommend alternatives with an indication of premium, which seem to be fixed rather than individually tailored.

 

[Lozzer]

I used to use Fastnet in Southampton, not sure if they still offer it.

 

[[3889]]

I used to use Fastnet in Southampton, not sure if they still offer it.

They do but at twice the price (£400 vs £200) of Pants for less cover, but I suppose at least they may bother to accept my premium.

 

[Lozzer]

I could offer to cover you for a £1 but if I don't send you the paperwork so you can sign up it is totally irrelevant. £400 wont be a lot of money in the event of a claim.

 

[lpdsn]

£400 wont be a lot of money in the event of a claim.

Still, it is a large premium to pay just to act as volunteer crew on a delivery. I pay less than that annually to insure my boat and for my actions as skipper of her.

 

[[3889]]

I could offer to cover you for a £1 but if I don't send you the paperwork so you can sign up it is totally irrelevant. £400 wont be a lot of money in the event of a claim.

I think I made that point in my 1st reply. Bit surprised at Pants, though, whom I always thought to be more professional

Still, it is a large premium to pay just to act as volunteer crew on a delivery. I pay less than that annually to insure my boat and for my actions as skipper of her.

It's not for volunteer crew, it's an annual policy for paid deliveries and training as skipper where there is a real risk of breaking crew with large subsequent claims.

 

[Uricanejack]

Still, it is a large premium to pay just to act as volunteer crew on a delivery. I pay less than that annually to insure my boat and for my actions as skipper of her.

Depends.

Do you mean 3rd party or comprehensiv cover for any boat you are skipper of. Equivalent to typical boat owners insurance
Sort of a driver of any vehicle policy.
Which would make sense if you run a small one man delivery company and expect to do a significant no of deliverys per year.
But not for an occasional delivery.

Or do you mean cover for failure to act professionally. Including leagal defence if accused of negligence. Or violation of regulations. Where you are personally responsible without regular insurance cover.

The first kind I have never felt I needed. I was covered as a paid casual employee of the sailing school I worked for.
I theoretically had some kind of 2 nd type as a member of the CYA and as a CYA instructor but the limit on it was very low.

My personal opinion just ask the question prior to setting off and find out how the vessel is insured and save 400 quid
If you are not covered don’t just walk away. run

 

[[3889]]

The latter. There is an infamous case of a delivery crew losing their house when they totaled a mobo in the Solent and the boats insurers went after them. Risk vs cost aside, many companies won't offer work without PL cover in place.

 

[rotrax]

The latter. There is an infamous case of a delivery crew losing their house when they totaled a mobo in the Solent and the boats insurers went after them. Risk vs cost aside, many companies won't offer work without PL cover in place.

Perhaps those guys were insured.

Most insurers wont pay for negligance. IIRC they set a waypoint as a channel marker, got the sausages and kettle on, the watchkeeper was doing something with the plotter and they hit said channel marker at a good speed, sinking the boat.

Self inflicted, if that was the case.

 

[capnsensible]

I have RYA Coaches Indemnity with GJW and am talking to Topsail about a Pro Indemnity for deliveries but they are somewhat slack in obeying at this time.....

 

[chrishelen]

I pay around £700 a year, this gives me 5 million public indemnity. My broker is Bay MARINE insurance based in cardiff. Give them a bell, I'm sure they can tailor a deal. But I think the government has kindly introduced a 11pc extra tax on premium for the future.

 

[alant]

I have RYA Coaches Indemnity with GJW and am talking to Topsail about a Pro Indemnity for deliveries but they are somewhat slack in obeying at this time.....

I seem to remember looking at the RYA insurance some years back & was advised it was more suitable for beach resort/dinghy/windsurfer instructors than yacht types.

 

[Lozzer]

For the sake of £xxx I would rather know that I have my own insurance cover in the event the primary insurer wants to dick around.

 

[[3889]]

I have RYA Coaches Indemnity with GJW and am talking to Topsail about a Pro Indemnity for deliveries but they are somewhat slack in obeying at this time.....

Thanks I'll have a chat with Topsail. Also found this
https://www.schomacker.de/en/professional-skippers/third-party-liability.html
Which seems to offe what I want and specifically offers cover for gross negligence.
Only downside is the website translation from German isn't all it might be.

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

I submitted a proposal to Pantaenius in Austria but have heard nothing other than a automated email. Their UK office don't deal with the policy.
Can anyone recommend alternatives with an indication of premium, which seem to be fixed rather than individually tailored.

For professional skippers insurance have a look at Schomacker:

www.schomacker.de/en/professional-skippers/third-party-liability.html

Pete

 

[jfm]

For professional skippers insurance have a look at Schomacker:

www.schomacker.de/en/professional-skippers/third-party-liability.html

Pete

Pete, I must say I don't like the look of that. Full of restrictions.

Suppose you're delivering my boat. Fully insured, uk flagged, uk delivery contract between you and me. Then suppose you make a mistake and sink it. My insurers will pay me my £2m so I'm done and and i buy a new boat. My insurers then sue you for £2m on the basis of your negligence (because my claim against you is subrogated to them) but not gross negligence, and they win.

As I read it at least, that insurance policy is a chocolate fireguard. Happy to be proven wrong but that's how I see it.

 

[jfm]

... specifically offers cover for gross negligence.

Hmm. That's not how I read it. I read it as specifically excluding cover for anything other than officially proven gross negligence. English law doesn't generally recognise gross negligence, so good luck with that. Be careful.

 

[alant]

Pete, I must say I don't like the look of that. Full of restrictions.

Suppose you're delivering my boat. Fully insured, uk flagged, uk delivery contract between you and me. Then suppose you make a mistake and sink it. My insurers will pay me my £2m so I'm done and and i buy a new boat. My insurers then sue you for £2m on the basis of your negligence (because my claim against you is subrogated to them) but not gross negligence, and they win.

As I read it at least, that insurance policy is a chocolate fireguard. Happy to be proven wrong but that's how I see it.

IIRC, there is no difference between "negligence" & "gross negligence" in Law, perhaps the Barristers on here can advise (pro bono of course).

 

[capnsensible]

I doubt that anyone with £2m in assets for Insurance Companies to pursue are going to be called 'Delivery Skipper'.....:nonchalance:

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

Pete, I must say I don't like the look of that. Full of restrictions.

Suppose you're delivering my boat. Fully insured, uk flagged, uk delivery contract between you and me. Then suppose you make a mistake and sink it. My insurers will pay me my £2m so I'm done and and i buy a new boat. My insurers then sue you for £2m on the basis of your negligence (because my claim against you is subrogated to them) but not gross negligence, and they win.

As I read it at least, that insurance policy is a chocolate fireguard. Happy to be proven wrong but that's how I see it.

We have bespoke insurance from another company. If you wanted us to deliver your boat you'd have nothing to worry about! ;-)

Off the shelf policies for freelance skippers are quite limited and this is one of the few policies I am aware off.

Pete