Prof of VAT status

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ogi

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Could anyone explain the procedure to obtain proof of VAT Status please. 6 months after buying our boat and after countless promises of chasing the previous owner by the broker, we still have not heard anything. The oat was built in 1991 and hashad 4 preious owners. The receipt signed by both the previous owner and the broker states that the VAT has been paid in the EU, but this is only a yes/no option.
Para 7.1 states that immediateley upon completion, the documents in para 7.2 will be handed over to the purchaser.
para 7.2.4 reads "Evidence by way of original or true copy documents regarding the VAT status of the vessel including Builders invoices, evidence of VAT payment and dates of arrival in the EU Community.
We have constantly asked for these documents since the purchase but have never received them.
Is it mine or the brokers responsibility to prove the VAT status without them?
 
When asked by the VAT man (in the UK or abroad) it will be YOUR responsibility to prove that the VAT was paid.....and in default of which YOU get a bill for the VAT.

But, from the sound of the contract (I presume with the previous owner?) it is their responsibilty to provide you with these documents, but ONLY because they agreed to this - and in default of which I would go and see and a lawyer - about seeking compo for the VAT amount....sounds to me like the previous owner never had the docs passed to him. If they ever existed??

Hindsight I know, but you should NOT have paid the money / completed the deal until you saw / had the docs in your possession - hopefully you never signed anything saying you had recieved them........

You may have a case against the Broker, but only depending on what the agreement you signed with him, if anything.

Not a lawyer yadda yadda yadda /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Interesting

When we sold our boat, the broker made sure that we had all the necessary documentation - especially the origional VAT invoice.

However, it doesnt seem to be the brokers responsibility but you could let him know that he wasnt doing his job properly. Who was the broker?

I would echo the above - get a lawer and sue the previous owner until you get either payment to the value of the VAT or a VAT invoice. Do it now.
 
The Broker should have sorted this out, he should ensure that the documents are correct, its what he is being paid his fee for.......

Do you have the original bill of sale from the first sale of the boat to the first owner??

Send the broker a recorded delivery letter saying that you have not recieved the proof of VAT status which they are supposed to provide as per their contractual obligations , give them a reasonable deadline to produce this document...

Point out that they will be liable for all your costs to secure this document if they dont.....

TAke it from there...
 
I wouldn't panic, its most likely just the broker being lazy and/or losing interest once he's got the dough, which is pretty much par for the course in my experience.

You need to motivate him to try and sort it, and if you've got nowhere after 6 months yourself, then its a solicitors letter.
 
Photodog
thanks for your comments........no, we do not have the original billl of sale, but we do have the bill of sale from owner 1 to owner 2. (owner 1 sadly deceased)
 
my take on the VAT issue, is that its a bit of a stand off. Its not unusual for that one original document to go missing with time; the question is who is interested?
The RYA did a survey after the rumoured scores of boaters being hassled abroad for VAT documents, only to find hardly anyone had really had any problems. On discussion with Customs (UK), they said they didnt see any issue, and not enough to do anything about it.
If you havent got it by now, I d have a strong suspicion that its not to hand. And if its missing, nothing is going to make it reappear. With newer boats, people are keen to have the original document as on a newer boat it will probably have an impact on ease of sale. Read the RYA pages, but if the original document really doesnt appear, I wouldnt get too worried about it. Incidentally, VAT on a UK registered boat is the sole responsibility of the UK, not any other country. And there doesnt seem to be much of an incidence rate of the UK authorities being concerned-unless they have due reason, I imagine.
And before anyone says, I know a mate who has been in the Bastille for 15 years now etc etc, I m only commenting that the RYA concluded that there was alot more rumour than fact on this.
 
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Incidentally, VAT on a UK registered boat is the sole responsibility of the UK

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Not sure that's true. As I understand it, you can choose any EU country you like in which to pay VAT on a boat assuming you can get the boat to that country without the boat becoming VAT liable en route. There are many UK registered boats that have been exported to Spain and have the VAT paid in Spain because the rate is lower (16%) there
Also, if you visit a foreign country eg France with your UK registered boat and in the unlikely event that you get asked by the French customs to prove VAT status and you are unable to do so, VAT would become due in France not the UK
AFAIK, UK registration does not mean you have to pay VAT in the UK
 
This is completely unacceptable and the owner or the broker or both are in breach of contract IMHO. The owner/broker has contracted to provide proof of VAT status and by not doing so, the value of the boat is potentially reduced. Contact a marine law company like Ward & McKenzie
 
As I understand it VAT is the responsibility of the country in which the vessel is registered. Thats not to say if its UK registered, VAT has to be paid in the UK. It is to say, that if its UK registered, its up to the UK to be satisfied that VAT is paid (somewhere).
Think its from RYA pages-maybe members section.
 
Thanks for all your comments, it has given us food for thought. Will let you all know how we reslove this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Incidentally, VAT on a UK registered boat is the sole responsibility of the UK, not any other country.

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That's utterly incorrect.
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the RYA concluded that there was alot more rumour than fact on this.

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That's very true!
 
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As I understand it VAT is the responsibility of the country in which the vessel is registered. Thats not to say if its UK registered, VAT has to be paid in the UK. It is to say, that if its UK registered, its up to the UK to be satisfied that VAT is paid (somewhere).
Think its from RYA pages-maybe members section.

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That's just not correct gigm
 
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When asked by the VAT man (in the UK or abroad) it will be YOUR responsibility to prove that the VAT was paid.....and in default of which YOU get a bill for the VAT.

[/ QUOTE ]
David that is often stated (especially on these forums) but it's not correct. I challenge anyone to find a law saying that if A sells a boat to B, and A/B didn't correctly account for VAT on that transaction, then later B sells to C in good faith, C is liable for the VAT on the A-B transaction.
 
Re: Proof of VAT status

maybe I am wrong..
According to HMRC they say:
If you are unable to provide any of the above, whilst cruising within the EU you should carry a Bill of Sale (between two private individuals in the UK). Whilst this is not conclusive proof that VAT has been paid, it does indicate that tax status is the responsibility of UK Customs

You feel differently, though?
 
Id be interested to know if anyone (without due reason) has had any issue with uk tax offices on VAT on their boat.
When this was dicussed previously, a significant number of members didnt have any VAT proof, and didnt seem worried about it either.
 
So, if you're asked by French customs to prove that VAT has been paid on your boat, you can just say it's not my responsibility, gov, go and talk to one of the previous owners? I don't think so. It's the current owners responsibility to ensure that VAT status is proven and his reponsibility to pay the VAT if it's not. If that were not the case, why is a copy of the original invoice showing VAT payment considered essential to be handed over to any new owner on resale?
Of course, there is nothing to stop an existing owner suing a previous owner for the VAT amount if the purchase contract stated that the boat was VAT paid
 
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