Probs on the boat next to you. What do you do?

pelissima

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Hi to all,
Here is the case for you. Say you are anchored in quite deep waters 15+, steep bottom with not the best holding, and you also have stern lines on rocks. The boat stood well in last breeze, so now at 13:00 you are seeping your ouzo reading your book and keeping an eye on the building breeze on your bow. You then realize that your leeward neighbor has dragged his hook and is about to start hitting the rocks with first victim his rudder. You shout, but the guy is not in. A line on your bow could possibly do the trick but you do not like to push your luck with the extra pull on your hook. So you opt to step on board, find his second hook, with your tender drop it where it should be, take the slack –end of story, bravo. But what if this boat decided to snap her rudder while you were on board? Could you be accused for this? Would you do it anyway? In case you decided to go for a swim and watch from the distance does your options change if we put this boat on your windward side? Very interested on your thoughts.
Rgds
George
 

aluijten

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Hopefully this is not a scenario you've encountered in person.
Anyway, I think I would try to 'save' the boat in the way you've described. Even if the consequenses were as you describe. At least I would make the effort, hoping someone would also do it with my boat, if the this would happen (heaven forbid).

Arno
 

ytd

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you go over and try to save his boat. If things go pear shaped later you are pretty safe. There's no contractual relationship between you and the other owner.
 

tcm

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Nearly exactly this happened to me twice in greece. But both times i wasn't alone (there were more of my crew that theirs) and both times there was someone on board the dragging boat. So i shouted "are you moving or am i?" and the person on board made it clear that they hadn't a clue, and then we went aboard to sort them out. I think they were rental boats so no issue on damage either.

But ingeneral I am extremely cautious about tally ho rescues, and use the example set by mountain guides in the alps (not that i have ever been one but anyway...) who protect their own client first and don't go wandering off after others. So, they don't charge off to the aid as first priority - their first priority is their existing reponsibility, not others who might seem in more immediate need.
So, in other places I have seen flashing red lights that look as tho they might warrant investigation, but then again, might endanger our boat. Other times we've seen boats held to a pontoon with one mooring line that is ok at the momnent but wdn't last too long.

The difficulty (and hence the question) is that you are of course "taking command" as skipper - but without the full knowledge of the boat. I mean, spose you get on board, start the engine, pulll up the anchor - but for some reason can't redeploy it. Or, in its new positon where you put it further out - it gets whacked. As others say, you have to do your best.

The rule change if it threatens your boat, imho, at which point i think you are fine to do whatever necessary to make your boat safe. Cruel as it sounds the tho, the best way to make your boat safe is to be somewhere else first of all - then do the best for his boat.
 

Sans Bateau

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I'll second that. If in the unlikely event that something did go wrong, but you did overall 'save' the boat; should you then be accused of being party to the damage, just say to the owner "I do apologise, we did our best, tell you what we won't send you a salvage demand, that should cover the cost", then see what he says!
 
G

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You're not in a contractual relationship with someone you run over in your car either, doesn't stop them suing you /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But you're right, in the situation described, you wouldn't be liable, not because you're not in a contractual relationship, just because you wouldn't.
 

Lakesailor

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I've secured boats and gear before. If I know the owner I will try and contact them first. Otherwise I will do what's needed. Not to the point of meddling you understand. If I see someone's foresail unfurling on a mooring I would certainly do that and if I see someone's warps loosening or damaged I will do that.
Of course the situation can arise where you put yourself in peril in order to help and that needs thinking about. I've run aground myself helping to tow a grounded boat off. Luckily it was only momentarily. I've also broken a rib trying to secure a towing warp when the wind was being unhelpful.
So I am a bit circumspect these days.
The bottle of whisky promised never did appear!
 

MASH

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IMHO the old rules apply:

Matthew 7:12

and

One hand for yourself, one for the ship; and one for someone else's ship if you can spare it...

Sorry, can't quote offhand the international maritime law regarding your DUTY to assist vessels in distress...and sod the begrudgers!
 

TigaWave

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I wouldn't give a moments thought as to who is liable....I would just do what ever I could to protect any body elses property if they weren't able or weren't there, after first ensuring that my own boat was secure.

I've re-moored/assisted several boats, and just hope others would do the same for me.

Blame culture and fear of being liable does not exist in the cruising mind, its more of a club where everybody helps each other.

However many weekend sailors have a different perspective on life (I believe), which I find hard to understand? The don't raft up next to me mentality....but thats another debate /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 

ajt

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We are surely out on boats for the same reason, pleasure, if I can assist another owner whether present or not, I consider it part of the rules and should go to the assistance of any man even if he is a motorboat owner
 

Sgeir

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[ QUOTE ]
even if he is a motorboat owner

[/ QUOTE ]! I would damn well hope so! I have a feeling that, owing to shallower keels and generally greater manoeuvrability, MOBOs may more often have assisted sailing vessels than the other way around.

Need to watch what I say about them:)
 

Sans Bateau

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[ QUOTE ]
I consider it part of the rules and should go to the assistance of any man even if he is a motorboat owner

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on thats going a bit to far is'nt it?
 

Sgeir

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Seriously, I think we should all look out for each other whether in anchorages, harbours, or marinas. We've probably all done it before and not given it a second thought. In any event, a boat that's liable to break loose, or with a boom swinging around wildly, is liable to do damage to another boat or a person. You just do it - I have and I guess plenty other Forumites have.

Has anyone ever experienced an adverse reaction in those circumstances? Would be interesting to find out.
 

dralex

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Good post. I really dislike the blame and not my problem culture and would always try to help in any situation like that- my conscience would not let me do otherwise. I would like to think that if ever my boat was in that situation ( not that it would because I'm such a good seaman /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) then some kind soul would help out.

In the USA, medics can be sued for good samaritan acts!! We are lucky in the UK in that our indemnity covers us to help out and not be sued as long as we are following best practice. Can you imagine collapsing and people walking past you for fear of legal action???? So wrong.
 

Cobra25

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There is no duty to help, the decision is entirely yours and if you decide to and it doesn't work, all concerned (most probably the owner would be unappreciative in any event, unless you performed heroic deeds, which he witnessed as being the only thing to have saved his boat.) that matter (the insurance company) would see your intentions. If litigation followed, remember the courts are keen to not discourage people from saving life and property. The insurance company would also smile very warmly on any events to save them paying out money.
 

RickMoss

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In recent winds at Holyhead, my Sadler 26 (Sylvia) wore through it's bowline and most of the way through it's stern line, leaving it hanging on the springs. Somebody went on board and tied it up properly again with 2 ropes, presumably supplied by them as they are not mine.

Whoever you are; thanks. I owe you a pint or 3.
 

cliff

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First and foremost, any skipper that would anchor his vessel on a lee shore and leave it unattended deserves to lose the vessel especially if the holding is known to be poor. That is an act of crass stupidity. "The boat stood well in last breeze, so now at 13:00 you are seeping your ouzo reading your book and keeping an eye on the building breeze on your bow". Existing breezy conditions and now building even more? I would be more concerned over my own vessels safety than that of some idiot who leaves his vessel under such conditions.

Having said that, If I was 110% sure of the safety of my own vessel I would probably deploy my second bow anchor via the tender "to be sure to be sure" and then put a bow line on the idiot's vessel and pull him along side my own and hold it there if the sea state permitted. Then call the CG / other vessels for assistance.

Either that or get the video camera out and record the break up as she hit the rocks.

I believe the rule that you render assistance to other vessels is sort of watered down by the clause "providing in doing so you do not put your own vessel or crew on jeopardy" which one could do by the very act of leaving one's own vessel under such conditions.

All in all these "what would you do?" questions are impossible to answer as even though one thinks they know what one would do in the situation, until it actually happens one does not really know. The only thing I am fairly certain of is I would put my own vessel and crew's safety above all else although I might (probably would) bend the rules a little and take some calculated minor risks (what do a few gel coat scratches matter?)
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Grehan

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[ QUOTE ]
I would damn well hope so! I have a feeling that, owing to shallower keels and generally greater manoeuvrability, MOBOs may more often have assisted sailing vessels than the other way around.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, we've helped MoBos - and been helped by them. By their greater pulling power.

Last time, 'we' ran aground on sandbank (clearly marked on pilot book) near intended mooring through skipper's shameful last minute loss of concentration (and brain cells?) on the river Saone at Macon. So no restorative tide to wait for. Tried rowing out kedge anchor and pulling like stink in all directions, to no avail. Sunday afternoon, no-one around. An hour and a bit of staying calm, but it's looking like a long wait until Monday and then maybe ring up the Pompiers?
Swiss mobo appears and by golly did we yell. Didn't let up until they got the message. Took 'em two goes but they pulled us off. First priority for us was retrieving the kedge, not fouling trailing warps, and not running aground again . . . Theirs was to continue their journey, so we never had a chance properly to thank them, apart from shouting and waving.

But we will ever be grateful, and for a painful lesson learnt with loss only of dignity.

[We have also been seriously jeopardised by a bunch of very stupid looked-exactly-like-seasoned-sailor yachties (from aboard a 'classic' gaff rigged wooden boat).]

Having had so many 'helpful' shoreside dimwits do exactly the wrong thing with our mooring warps, I try to make it a rule never to mess with another boat's lines unless I am specifically directed by her skipper, or unless I can see that I won't sleep for worrying unless I do something at least minimally beneficial (imho).
 
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