Problem with a broker

[bill bligh]

I am being deliberately obscure. I have found a boat that I am very interested in the asking price is in the £15000 to £20000 bracket after speaking to the broker and telling them that I live the other side of the country about a 6 hour drive. I asked the broker if they would ask the owner if I was to put in an offer of a little over 25% less than the asking price would it be worth me making the trip to view the boat the broker told me the owner has a health problem and they would not speak to the owner as they did not consider the figure high enough. During the conversation with the broker they told roughly me where the boat is with the aid of the internet and Google earth it did not take long to find where the I think the boat is being kept I could ask the yard owners to pass my phone number on to the boat owner and speak to them my self but still use the broker to buy the boat that is if the owner still wanted to use this broker. I am under the impression that a broker is duty bound to pass on any interest shown in a boat they have on there listings. I would like to stress that I am not trying to do the broker out of any commission they may be due it’s just that I feel a bit peeved with them. What would you do?.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Carry on as you are.
It'll either work out or it won't.

You might get an irate broker call you back though

 

[Rigger Mortice]

If it was a boat that I really was very interested in, then I would just go and see it rather than trying to agree a price reduction before I knew it was like. For all you know it is worth the asking price.

AFAIK a broker should usually pass on any offers but I'm not surprised that he doesn't feel inclined to pass on an enquiry which is not yet a firm offer.

Go through the back door by all means but, if you were to proceed, you would end up dealing with a broker who would probably feel a bit miffed with you.

 

[l'escargot]

The owner may have also told the broker that he isn't interested in offers below a certain amount.

 

[Richard10002]

The broker has told you it's not worth the trip if you're going to offer 25% less than the asking price..... Seems quite honourable to me. You have to take it on good faith that they know their client.

A recent post was about a broker telling someone that a 6 hour trip was worth making.... When it blatantly wasn't.

Brokers can't really win.... Can they?

You may not be trying it on, but your approach could be seen as a tactic to get the boat for even less, so may not enamour you to the owner even if you are able to contact him direct.

There are plenty of boats for sale - I'd call it quits on this one, and find another.

 

[Sneaky Pete]

This could finish him off.

Its e-bay you should be bidding on not using a broker. To offer more than 25% less than asking price is being rather rude especially when you’ve not even seen the craft, had you seen it and it was a pile of mince then you may have an argument there based on your findings. The poor owner may be on his death bed and a shock like this may finish him completely.

 

[onesea]

Being Solent based, we did some miles to look at boats, Preston, Grimsby Liverpool North Wales, Swansea, Eastbournex2, Newhaven, Dover, Brighton x2, there where 2 in Scotland we considered.

One we went to see a sister ship locally and where just going to send survey first as it was cheaper. Even after viewing sister ship the seller did not take us seriously, and accepted another offer...

6 hours is not that far IMHO do the drive make the most of the day kick some other fenders whilst your there, its worth it.

We took it as part of the fun.

One last tip when you think you have found the boat you like, that is only a "little" over budjet. Make sure you stay some where that little bit special that weekend, it softens the blow to SWMBO , it worked for me

 

[Seajet]

I'd say a prospective buyer has to be prepared to travel in order to find 'the right boat' - she's rather unlikely to be on your doorstep.

As an example my girlfriend is selling her rather nice house at the moment, and has told the estate agent not to even pass on offers from chancers who haven't even seen the place !

One has to put some legwork in to find a good boat - after all you'll have her for years hopefully -, oneseas' suggestion of making a weekend holiday break out of going for a look and finding a nice place to stay seems a good idea.

 

[NealB]

Its e-bay you should be bidding on not using a broker. To offer more than 25% less than asking price is being rather rude especially when you’ve not even seen the craft, had you seen it and it was a pile of mince then you may have an argument there based on your findings. The poor owner may be on his death bed and a shock like this may finish him completely.

This always amazes me. How is it rude to make an offer, however low, on something that someone wants to sell?

Whenever I've had boats for sale (many, many times over the years), I'd always much rather that someone felt free to offer me what she is worth to them. If I don't want to sell at that price, I'll just say "thanks, but no thanks".

I've never felt offended or abused.

I'd much rather have a low offer, than someone keep quiet for fear of upsetting me.

As for someone dying as a result of receiving an offer....well, I'm speechless!

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

This always amazes me. How is it rude to make an offer, however low, on something that someone wants to sell?

Whenever I've had boats for sale (many, many times over the years), I'd always much rather that someone felt free to offer me what she is worth to them. If I don't want to sell at that price, I'll just say "thanks, but no thanks".

I've never felt offended or abused.

I'd much rather have a low offer, than someone keep quiet for fear of upsetting me.

As for someone dying as a result of receiving an offer....well, I'm speechless!

Quite.

I don't get this "it may be worth the asking price". Something is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay. If you're the only offer, no matter how low, then that is all it is "worth" in the current market.

It's perfectly ok to say "I know it is on the market for £20k but I have only got £15k absolute max. Please tell me if this is a seller that might consider a low offer. If so, I will make the trip. If not, no worries."

I think you have to trust the brokers answer to the question under those circumstances. If you don't, and you make the trip, you can't be surprised when he tells you he is not going to pass on your offer for £15k.

 

[[70521]]

I asked the broker if they would ask the owner if I was to put in an offer of a little over 25% less than the asking price

I always ask the question, what is the boat worth in my eyes - no matter how far I travel.

So lets say it is worth £15,000 in your eyes are you happy to spend a day to look at it? If not then there are lots and lots of boats in that price bracket.

 

[chi-girl]

if you think you may know where the boat is lying, is it not possible that a forum member may know the boat and could have a quick look at it for you then you csn decide if its worth the time to view yourself

 

[Tranona]

Quite.

I don't get this "it may be worth the asking price". Something is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay. If you're the only offer, no matter how low, then that is all it is "worth" in the current market.

It's perfectly ok to say "I know it is on the market for £20k but I have only got £15k absolute max. Please tell me if this is a seller that might consider a low offer. If so, I will make the trip. If not, no worries."

I think you have to trust the brokers answer to the question under those circumstances. If you don't, and you make the trip, you can't be surprised when he tells you he is not going to pass on your offer for £15k.

But that is what the OP is being told - that the vendor is unlikely to accept an offer that low. So the OP has to make the decision whether to travel and assess whether he is prepared to make an offer when he has seen the boat. Better to have the knowledge that the vendor is not disposed towards a low offer than make the journey thinking that it is open to low offers.

Don't see much sense in trying to go direct to the owner - by engaging a broker he is saying he does not want to deal direct with potential purchasers.

 

[jonic]

Why title the thread problem with a broker? He's doing his job.

You want 25% off and you haven't even seen the boat?

Perhaps the problem is your lack of funds

Hmmm

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Why title the thread problem with a broker? He's doing his job.

You want 25% off and you haven't even seen the boat?

Perhaps the problem is your lack of funds

Hmmm

You're not suggesting that some buyers say they would like a boat but claim not to have the money???? I'm shocked.

 

[jonic]

You're not suggesting that some buyers say they would like a boat but claim not to have the money???? I'm shocked.

Years ago when I first started in boat sales, I was at the London Boat Show selling new 40ftrs. The gross margin for the dealer was about 15% and the costs on top of being at the boat show were colossal.

But we would get a regular stream of people demanding, not asking, but demanding discounts of 20-30%.

I would patiently explain that this was literally impossible, but some would just stomp off in a huff.

I asked my then boss what to do and he smiled and said " There is nothing harder in brokerage than trying to sell a boat to someone who doesn't have the money"

 

[jwilson]

Why title the thread problem with a broker? He's doing his job.

You want 25% off and you haven't even seen the boat?

Perhaps the problem is your lack of funds

Hmmm

As another broker, I agree that he is doing his job. I sometimes have specific instruction from owners as to how low they are prepared to go.

I try not to have this "bottom line" set with owners, because circumstances do change week by week. The seller may just have had a big bill for school fees, or house or car repairs, come in, and be running on overdraft, so might be prepared to take less than he originally hoped for. Equally however he might not be desperate for funds, just have paid a years marina fees in advance, and be thinking that he might now have one more summer holiday on the boat, so is not interested in low offers.

If you make a specific offer of X, sight unseen, the broker is duty bound to put it to the owner, whatever amount it is, in the absence of specific prior instructions about a minimum. We have sold a number of boats sight unseen (but possibly because we do VERY good photos).

If however your query was "I won't pay more than X - it is worth me coming" and the broker was either very confident that this was unacceptable (perhaps the owner had firmly turned down more than X three days earlier from someone who had already seen the boat and was ready to buy quickly without survey), then he is quite right to tell you that this is simply not going to be acceptable. He is saving you a long journey.

We have also sold boats for clients who are very, very seriously ill, and will not bother them unless we believe that the enquiry is likely to lead to a sale. We have one such case at the moment.

The broker normally really wants to make the sale - if he does not want to pass on your enquiry (which by what you say is not an offer) he probably has a very valid reason.

 

[oldharry]

Seems to me the broker has answered your question quite clearly: no it is not worth coming. He will know the open market value of the boat, and will not bother his client with what he clearly regards as a 'silly' offer - particularly when you haven't even seen it yet! He is being paid to get the best offer he can for his seller, not to try and swing a hefty discount for you as buyer. Sounds to me he is doing his job.

If after you have seen it you can justify a lower offer then fair enough, but a low offer without even viewing it simply puts you in the category of 'fender kickers' No good broker will waste his or his clients time, particularly if his client can afford to wait for a good price which he probably can if he is only giving up through ill health.

 

[davidej]

You wouldn't half be pi**ed off if the broker had told you it was worth the visit, you made it and confirmed your -25% offer and the owner then said he wasn't interested.

As someone else said, the broker always gets the blame - but then it's his role.

 

[Trop Cher]

As another broker, I agree that he is doing his job. I sometimes have specific instruction from owners as to how low they are prepared to go.

I try not to have this "bottom line" set with owners, because circumstances do change week by week. The seller may just have had a big bill for school fees, or house or car repairs, come in, and be running on overdraft, so might be prepared to take less than he originally hoped for. Equally however he might not be desperate for funds, just have paid a years marina fees in advance, and be thinking that he might now have one more summer holiday on the boat, so is not interested in low offers.

If you make a specific offer of X, sight unseen, the broker is duty bound to put it to the owner, whatever amount it is, in the absence of specific prior instructions about a minimum. We have sold a number of boats sight unseen (but possibly because we do VERY good photos).

If however your query was "I won't pay more than X - it is worth me coming" and the broker was either very confident that this was unacceptable (perhaps the owner had firmly turned down more than X three days earlier from someone who had already seen the boat and was ready to buy quickly without survey), then he is quite right to tell you that this is simply not going to be acceptable. He is saving you a long journey.

We have also sold boats for clients who are very, very seriously ill, and will not bother them unless we believe that the enquiry is likely to lead to a sale. We have one such case at the moment.

The broker normally really wants to make the sale - if he does not want to pass on your enquiry (which by what you say is not an offer) he probably has a very valid reason.

You do have good photos on your site, I once travelled from Inverness-shire to Cornwall on the bases of your photos to view a boat. The boat however wasn't for me. When looking for a new boat, I often refered to your site for additional information and better photos in your archive section. I'm surprised you don't have a link to your site at the bottom of your posts.
When I did buy my boat, ironically from the other broker on this thread, I emailed ahead before viewing to discuss the price as it was outwith my budget and it was quite a distance, though not as far as Cornwall! And obviously it did work out...