Problem (ALSO!) with sounder - which is the best portable one?

MapisM

MapisM

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Ok folks, you can skip the comments about my stupidity, because I'm already aware that it's remarkable. :(

My troubles with the radar (about which I posted in another thread) were actually expected, but I wasn't too worried about them because even if I have a very long delivery trip ahead, we have plenty of time to wait for fine weather, avoid night passages, and so forth.
So, in this respect, while a working radar is obviously a very nice to have thing, I don't see it as a deal breaker and I can fix/replace it later on.

The bigger problem I'm facing out of the blue is that my sounder ain't working anymore, and as it turns out nobody thought (myself included, hence guilty as charged ref. stupidity) that after coppercoating the hull, the internal transducer couldn't have a snowball's chance in hell to continue to work.
And I neither fancy cruising the whole HR archipelago with no sounder, nor I like the idea of pulling the just launched boat to fit a through hull xducer.
Bottom line, I was thinking that a portable sounder could be good enough as an emergency solution for at least checking depths while going around in bays very slowly before anchoring.

Which brings me back to the thread title - since I never investigated these products, is there any consensus about one which works well and reliably?
 
It's internal P, sitting inside the hull - practically impossible to clear the CC in that exact area, not to mention doing it with the boat in the water.
And if I should pull her, I might as well fit a through hull.
Reactivating the existing transducer without pulling the boat ain't going to happen, I'm afraid.

In the meantime, I found out that a shop nearby has on stock both these Lowrance thingies:
http://ww2.lowrance.com/en-GB/Products/castable-fishhunter/
Is anyone aware if they are half decent, or am I wasting my time and I can only bite the bullet and pull the boat...? :ambivalence:
 
MapisM said:
Ok folks, you can skip the comments about my stupidity, because I'm already aware that it's remarkable. :(

My troubles with the radar (about which I posted in another thread) were actually expected, but I wasn't too worried about them because even if I have a very long delivery trip ahead, we have plenty of time to wait for fine weather, avoid night passages, and so forth.
So, in this respect, while a working radar is obviously a very nice to have thing, I don't see it as a deal breaker and I can fix/replace it later on.

The bigger problem I'm facing out of the blue is that my sounder ain't working anymore, and as it turns out nobody thought (myself included, hence guilty as charged ref. stupidity) that after coppercoating the hull, the internal transducer couldn't have a snowball's chance in hell to continue to work.
And I neither fancy cruising the whole HR archipelago with no sounder, nor I like the idea of pulling the just launched boat to fit a through hull xducer.
Bottom line, I was thinking that a portable sounder could be good enough as an emergency solution for at least checking depths while going around in bays very slowly before anchoring.

Which brings me back to the thread title - since I never investigated these products, is there any consensus about one which works well and reliably?
Click to expand...
P, no problem with my depth sounder post CC application that I'm aware of on Rafiki.
 
rafiki_ said:
P, no problem with my depth sounder post CC application that I'm aware of on Rafiki.
Click to expand...
I suppose you've got a thru-hull transducer, which (obviously) was not painted with CC, correct?
My problem is that it's an internal transduced, and the whole hull underneath has been CC-ed...
 
as a temporary measure some sort of fish finder/depth kit with a transom mount transducer may be the answer? probably mountable in a temporary fashion off the bathing platform..? In my mind I have already fabricated it...
 
Raymarine dragonfly Wi-Fish I think I would get,

with this transom transducer & mount;

ram4.png


http://www.raymarine.com/dragonfly/wi-fish/

£170... and actually a bit of kit you may want to keep after you sort your old transducer issue out.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the pointer, but I'm not sure to fancy anything attached to the transom/swim platform on a fast-ish planing boat.
For the records, after searching a bit about the Lowrance bit of kit which I mentioned in my post #3, I found plenty of negative reports about the app required to interface with the actual sonar. :(
Anyway, in the meantime I also had a suggestion about a possible relocation of the internal transducer which might make it work again in spite of the coppercoated hull.
I'll report back if I should find out anything potentially useful... Fingers crossed!
 
P,

are you sure that CC is the culprit?
Why would a v.thin layer of epoxy and copper affect the signal propagation to that extend (compared to say just epoxy or normal a/f) ?
assuming it's solidly stuck to the gelcoat and assuming the hull is not cored where the transducer lives (wouldn't work anyway!) where's the problem?
Have you checked that sounder was working before CC the hull?

confused.

V.
 
Yes V, last year the sounder did work. You might have a point, though.
The first opinion I got from a technician who installs this stuff was categorically negative, and he told me that the copper on the hull bottom would have hindered the operation of the internal transducer.
Btw, even without thinking too much about it, I didn't find this so silly, because also with through hull transducers normally you don't put a/f on their bottom.
Then again, after speaking with another chap who has a specific experience with CC-ed boats, he suggested to recheck the transducer connection, possibly relocating it a bit off-center from the keel (where it is atm). He envisaged that there's a 70% chance to make it work again... We'll see.
 
I have an internal e/s transducer, and coppercoat, and no problem. Can't see why coppercoat would cause a problem, unless it has been applied to form an air bubble right opposite the transducer.
 
Perhaps the removal of the old AF leaves a less than smooth exterior surface - if air abrasion thousands of micro holes of various dimensions which when then refilled with epoxy , means a uneven density of the outside layer , which if the CC was slapped on the final results is a conversion of a reasonable homogeneous medium to transmit into a medium the ultra sound is severely disrupted.
Especially if many holes were in fact covered by a over thick resin leaving resulting micro air bubbles trapped —- this will knackerer the ultra sound tranrsmittability .

So it’s not the CC per se it’s the effect of the system on the homogeneous ness of the skin .
Either can,t send or receive a strong enough signal now .
 
P, should yours have liquid inside the fitting? Mine does and I've had to top it up (with antifreeze a few times to get it working again). Replacing the antifreeze with cooking oil is on my to do list as I believe that might work better.
 
Good idea to check the liquid.

The Airmar recommendation is to stick the housing down with silicon sealant and use Propylene Glycol [Try Ebay] as the coupling liquid. In principle any liquid will work, but I think mineral oils are not good for the silicon sealant, and vegetable oils can turn rancid given enough time. Water obviously might freeze. I think propylene glycol is less toxic than ethylene glycol, hence their recommendation.

I would doubt that enough micro-air bubbles could be introduced by removal and re-coating to prevent the signal transmission.
 
rgarside said:
Good idea to check the liquid.
Click to expand...
Indeed.
Long story short, the first indication I had from an engineer who is supposed to be an expert on onboard electronics eventually proved to be total BS.
If there's a moral of this story, it's bound to be the following:
1) Beware of experts. Always.
2) A coppercoated hull is totally irrelevant to the effectiveness of internal transducers.

In fact, CC was just a coincidence, and the reason for the malfunctioning was a detachment of the transducer from the hull bottom (for unknown reasons - possibly just down to age).
So, today I made a sort of emergency re-sealing of the thing to the hull bottom, using plain vanilla neutral silicone (not having propylene glycol handy), and the thing is now working as it always did.
Not sure about how long the repair will last, but I have a funny feeling that it might outlive me...! :D
 
Didn’t know CC would stop it working. Will putting some water in the bilge see it work ? Normally they need a medium like water, silicone, petroleum jelly etc etc to work through.
 
@QBhoy: LOL, you must have read my OP but not my last update, I reckon - see second para of post #16... :D
 
MapisM said:
Indeed.
Long story short, the first indication I had from an engineer who is supposed to be an expert on onboard electronics eventually proved to be total BS.
If there's a moral of this story, it's bound to be the following:
1) Beware of experts. Always.
Click to expand...

good result!
maybe this same expert had a go at your radar (hence not working now...) :rolleyes:

looking fwrd to the trip report!

cheers

V.
 
MapisM said:
Indeed.
Long story short, the first indication I had from an engineer who is supposed to be an expert on onboard electronics eventually proved to be total BS.
If there's a moral of this story, it's bound to be the following:
1) Beware of experts. Always.
2) A coppercoated hull is totally irrelevant to the effectiveness of internal transducers.

In fact, CC was just a coincidence, and the reason for the malfunctioning was a detachment of the transducer from the hull bottom (for unknown reasons - possibly just down to age).
So, today I made a sort of emergency re-sealing of the thing to the hull bottom, using plain vanilla neutral silicone (not having propylene glycol handy), and the thing is now working as it always did.
Not sure about how long the repair will last, but I have a funny feeling that it might outlive me...! :D
Click to expand...

Good result! 2 Options for internal transducers
1 - just glue it to the bottom - Sounds like this was your installation - if it separates from the glue it will stop working.
2 - stick a tube [housing] to the bottom, put some liquid in it and sit the transducer in the liquid - Which was what I was thinking of - if the liquid is lost it will stop working.
 
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