Private yacht purchase, deposits, surveys and avoiding gazumping

[Dellquay13]

I’m interested in a modest yacht in the middle teens price band, from a private UK seller.
How would you go about paying to get it surveyed without the financial risk of someone else coming along mid process and making an offer? If I were to agree to a holding deposit subject to the survey, is there a relatively simple way of keeping it retrievable should the survey show serious issues? Could you pay a private seller by credit card?
I would of course want to see some evidence to back up ownership title, general ID of the seller, no lien or debts against the boat, and that maintenance has been kept up.
I’d like to think any seller who has kept the boat in such good order would be too honest to steal a deposit or to sell from under me, but prudence and buyer beware etc.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I think the only way would be to use a contract I think the RYA have one and the money to be held by a 3rd party ( solicitor) all additional expense which is why brokers charge for this service.

 

[Ribtecer]

You're wise to exercise caution - Caveat Emptor.

When I went thru basically the same purchase, I had it surveyed before paying the deposit, that way I was only at risk for his costs. I met him there half way thru, we discussed the boat, the buyer showed up and the transaction happened with the surveyor witnessing the MCA Bill of Sale forms.

I quickly had the boat launched and took it away to a new yard with the boat under my control.

I'm not saying this is the perfect way, but I wanted the boat and it worked for me.

I'm naturally very untrusting in those type situations.

Next boat I bought was thru BoatShed, I must say they were brilliant and it got complicated. We definitely came out as the winner and the boat is great.

Good luck, hope it goes smoothly.

 

[Dellquay13]

You're wise to exercise caution - Caveat Emptor.

When I went thru basically the same purchase, I had it surveyed before paying the deposit, that way I was only at risk for his costs. I met him there half way thru, we discussed the boat, the buyer showed up and the transaction happened with the surveyor witnessing the MCA Bill of Sale forms.

I quickly had the boat launched and took it away to a new yard with the boat under my control.

I'm not saying this is the perfect way, but I wanted the boat and it worked for me.

I'm naturally very untrusting in those type situations.

Next boat I bought was thru BoatShed, I must say they were brilliant and it got complicated. We definitely came out as the winner and the boat is great.

Good luck, hope it goes smoothly.

Thanks,
I like the idea of having the survey before handing over any money to the vendor, I would be committed to the survey costs anyway, but without any risk of losing a deposit.
It is 300 miles from my home, and on the wrong coast to the marina I use, so timing Survey, Bill of Sale and Relocation to my home port on the same day would be very difficult in my case.

 

[Ribtecer]

Absolutely re the costs of the survey, you pay that upfront anyway, so I saw it as an easy way for me to run if necessary.

Mine also was 3-4 hour drive away, but I did easily all in one day, having the new yard arranged before, they ran me back to collect my car. I then went back down later (6 weeks) to collect the boat and sail it home to the Solent.

 

[doug748]

Thanks,
I like the idea of having the survey before handing over any money to the vendor, I would be committed to the survey costs anyway, but without any risk of losing a deposit.
It is 300 miles from my home, and on the wrong coast to the marina I use, so timing Survey, Bill of Sale and Relocation to my home port on the same day would be very difficult in my case.

The only risk is that he will take a more attractive offer. However, at this time of year, in an iffy or falling market, the seller would be very brave to take any other fancy offer at face value - I would say you are pretty safe.

.

 

[Ribtecer]

The only risk is that he will take a more attractive offer. However, at this time of year, in an iffy or falling market, the seller would be very brave to take any other fancy offer at face value - I would say you are pretty safe.

.

That's why I made the transaction happen quickly. Done and dusted and away. I enjoy the process of saving a few quid, if you want belt and braces use a Broker.

 

[B27]

I’m interested in a modest yacht in the middle teens price band, from a private UK seller.
How would you go about paying to get it surveyed without the financial risk of someone else coming along mid process and making an offer? If I were to agree to a holding deposit subject to the survey, is there a relatively simple way of keeping it retrievable should the survey show serious issues? Could you pay a private seller by credit card?
I would of course want to see some evidence to back up ownership title, general ID of the seller, no lien or debts against the boat, and that maintenance has been kept up.
I’d like to think any seller who has kept the boat in such good order would be too honest to steal a deposit or to sell from under me, but prudence and buyer beware etc.

With a private contract between two private individuals, you can do whatever you agree between you.
Don't assume that any 'normal practice' automatically applies.

You want the seller to take the boat off the market while you have a survey.
He may want a deposit to assure him you're serious.
You need to be clear under what circumstances the deposit is returnable and that the seller is committed to completing the sale.
It can get contentious when faults are found.
Or when the buyer wants to chip down the price for 'faults' which are really 'faults' just normal wear'n'tear on an old boat or should have been obvious when making the original offer.

Also my advice would be to be crystal clear about the inventory.

Realistically, until you have signed a contract and paid a deposit, the seller is free to sell elsewhere.
For a boat under say £20k, many people will trust their own judgement and offer a bank transfer same day with no survey.
Accepting such a deal does not make the seller a bad person.

I bought my last boat privately, I wanted a survey. The seller and I worked together to make all that happen.
We had a chat about the process and exchanged a few emails. I paid a deposit. I entered into a contract to buy the boat subject to significant faults turned up by the survey. I'd already seen receipts for standing rigging and some other stuff. so really it was only going to fail if the boat was riddled with osmosis or something.
It still took a month, for surveyor and tide to come together.
You need to be clear with each other and you need an element of trust.

As a seller, taking a boat off the market for a buyer now is a risk, because it's easy to faff around then find it's mid October and half the buyers have gone into hibernation.
As a buyer, you need to be closing a deal soon if you want to get jobs done over winter and enjoy the spring.

YMMV and Good Luck.

 

[Metalicmike]

Find someone with the same boat who would be prepared to go with you to view it before you pay anything. I am sure that there are plenty of good Samaritans here that would help if you cover their costs.

 

[Tranona]

The key is a contract using the RYA format as a basis. Once you both sign that you are both committed in law so that he can't accept another offer without being in breach. How you deal with deposit is up to you. A brokers contract usually has a deposit related to it because he wants to be sure of his commission if the deal goes through, but it is not essential for a private sale - or at least it does not need to be 10%. If you have a survey first you have no guarantee you will get the boat, and many sellers would not agree to a survey without a commitment from the buyer. Having a third party holding a deposit is an added complication and costly, although many brokers will do an execution only service including holding the deposit in a secure account.

On balance it is probably best to follow the "normal" process of contract, survey, renegotiation if appropriate then completion, making sure before you enter into the contract that you are satisfied the seller has the right to sell.

 

[C08]

I had problems buying a boat and were using the RYA contract template so in my ignorance thought that I could pull out if the survey was not up to scratch. There were no major problems thrown up by the survey but there were enough things needing sorting out that cumulatively I did not want to buy the boat. The seller resisted my attempts to withdraw from the sale and would not refund my 10% deposit citing there were no serious problems. Eventually I accepted the boat as there was no prospect of retrieving the deposit

 

[pandos]

If someone is going to stiff you I don't think a contract is really any great protection. It merely describes the lowest standard of behaviour that is to be enforceable.

If he will let you survey it before paying for it that is a bonus and if he won't then that is a red flag.

I just bought a boat, I paid a 500 deposit when I saw it. Sent him half of the remainder via bank transfer and handed a draft a week later. I worked on it in his back garden, he put me up in his house, and I sailed off a few weeks later with a bill of sale in my pocket.. no survey and an endless series of additional goodies that I never even knew were included..

Bottom line is that we both trusted each other it was a pleasure to do business on that basis. All of my previous boat purchases and sales were similarly done.

I have only ever had trouble when dealing with so called professionals in their own field so I am particularly wary of marine specialists, or brokers selling boats, because they know just how far they can push things, without you having any real recourse.

 

[Ribtecer]

If someone is going to stiff you I don't think a contract is really any great protection. It merely describes the lowest standard of behaviour that is to be enforceable.

If he will let you survey it before paying for it that is a bonus and if he won't then that is a red flag.

Yep.

 

[nevis768]

If someone is going to stiff you I don't think a contract is really any great protection. It merely describes the lowest standard of behaviour that is to be enforceable.

If he will let you survey it before paying for it that is a bonus and if he won't then that is a red flag.

I just bought a boat, I paid a 500 deposit when I saw it. Sent him half of the remainder via bank transfer and handed a draft a week later. I worked on it in his back garden, he put me up in his house, and I sailed off a few weeks later with a bill of sale in my pocket.. no survey and an endless series of additional goodies that I never even knew were included..

Bottom line is that we both trusted each other it was a pleasure to do business on that basis. All of my previous boat purchases and sales were similarly done.

I have only ever had trouble when dealing with so called professionals in their own field so I am particularly wary of marine specialists, or brokers selling boats, because they know just how far they can push things, without you having any real recourse.

I bought a boat from a well known Scottish broker, and was curious that I was never able to speak to the seller. The broker would always tell me he would ring, but it might take a day or 2 to get a reply. These 'conversations' happened a few times. I eventually bought the boat at a much reduced price. A few months later I decided to return a personal item to the owner which had been left on the boat. I googled his details and found he had actually died 4 months before I bought the boat. Now, I too am wary of brokers (salesmen/women) but would recommend Mark to anyone looking for a medium or clairvoyant.

 

[superheat6k]

I would be very surprised if you found a gazumper in the current boat market environment. But IMHO using the RYA /. MCA standard form of sale is highly recommended. This is where the broker earns his crust.

 

[Tranona]

I bought a boat from a well known Scottish broker, and was curious that I was never able to speak to the seller. The broker would always tell me he would ring, but it might take a day or 2 to get a reply. These 'conversations' happened a few times. I eventually bought the boat at a much reduced price. A few months later I decided to return a personal item to the owner which had been left on the boat. I googled his details and found he had actually died 4 months before I bought the boat. Now, I too am wary of brokers (salesmen/women) but would recommend Mark to anyone looking for a medium or clairvoyant.

The seller would likely have been the executor and very much alive but probably knew nothing about the boat so would have been a waste of time talking.